KTRV was established in 2002 on the basis of the State Research and Production Center "Zvezda-Strela" in the city of Korolyov, Moscow Region (hereinafter referred to as the Corporation). Today the Corporation is a recognized leader in the development and production of high-precision weapons, uniting more than three dozen enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex. In January 2017, the Corporation celebrates its 15th anniversary. The general director of KTRV - general designer of aviation weapons, Doctor of Technical Sciences, full member of the Russian Academy of Rocket and Artillery Sciences, Russian Academy of Cosmonautics named after K. NS. Tsiolkovsky Boris OBNOSOV.
- Boris Viktorovich, a well-known person who knows the Russian defense industry and its leaders well, when I asked to give you a brief description, he said: "Obnosov is the adviser to the President of the country on missile affairs." Do you really have the position of adviser to the president?
- To report - to report. And so, God forbid, to cope with your direct responsibilities.
- Well, then, about something serious. "Development strategies of the Corporation until 2017" next year - 10 years. Did you manage to bring everything you planned into reality? What failed to come true and why?
- Today we have approved and are operating the "Development Strategy of the Corporation until 2025". The previous document has essentially been implemented. Following its provisions, we were engaged in the development of promising aviation weapons, naval weapons in order to update the product range. The President of the country set a task for the defense complex - by 2020, the new weapons of the army and navy should be about 70%. This is the benchmark that we strive to reach.
- Has something fundamentally new appeared in the prolonged strategy?
- Fundamentally new and should not appear in such a document, since this would mean a denial of what we did before. Development, of course, is indicated. The corporation was enlarged, new enterprises were added and, accordingly, new tasks. When we were writing the Strategy until 2017, we didn’t even think that we would have such segments as all underwater weapons and space topics. These tasks have been integrated into the Strategy until 2025. We didn’t think then that we would be able to develop production capacities at the expense of our profits and state assistance to such sizes that allow us today to solve very serious problems.
When I am asked why they were not able to fully implement what was planned, I answer: which of us then had such experience to create so many products at the same time? After all, each of them requires a lot of individual preparation of production. I can honestly say to myself that I did not know that then. If I had to go all the way again, I would not have made many mistakes.
- Will the Tactical Missiles Corporation continue to expand? And is there a need for expansion?
- Let's see. You must first master what is available well.
- Then, from the conceptual document, let's move on to specifics. About a year ago, you assumed that in 2016 you will increase the volume of production "by 20 percent, and maybe by 30 percent." Did the prediction come true?
- There is still time before summing up the results, but I remain optimistic. I think everything will work out.
- A question of strategy, it is also an ideological one. Is it fashion or really a necessity that the entire domestic defense industry is divided into large production associations, clusters that have absorbed dozens, like yours, or even hundreds, like in Rostec, enterprises. You once said that the property of "our Russian character is better to make our own than in cooperation with neighbors." And yet, how do you think it is better to work: independently or as part of a large holding?
- If we can do something better within our Corporation according to the criterion "cost-effectiveness", then, of course, I will try to create long-term workload at our enterprises. But if they tell me "from the outside" that they will make it 20-30% cheaper, and besides, faster, then as a pragmatist I will place orders there.
- So, in your opinion, amalgamation of enterprises is a boon for the defense industry?
- If the holding is normally organized, then this is the only correct way, because today it is wrong to create strong competition within and thereby drive yourself into negative profitability. It is like a steam engine with very low efficiency. And we need to develop, fulfill social obligations, strengthen enterprises, carry out technical modernization.
- Does this mean that you are against internal competition?
- To a certain extent. If there is external competition, then we need to gather forces inside Russia, not fighting among ourselves.
- Do you have competitors within the country?
- Yes there is. We compare our products with those of the Novator Design Bureau, for example, with the same Caliber, which is widely heard today. Kolomenskoye Design Bureau of Mechanical Engineering is trying to make aircraft weapons - in a certain sense, too, a competitor. On the other hand, we are fruitfully working with the Almaz-Antey VKO Concern: the missile produced at our Vympel is adapted for the air defense-missile defense system.
- What is your assessment of the Russian-Indian enterprise "Brahmos", which also makes aircraft missiles?
- This is an ideal example that can be followed, probably, by all joint ventures. Brahmos provides good orders for us and India, as well as in the future in third countries. Thanks to the founder of this enterprise Herbert Alexandrovich Efremov, now the honorary general director of the military-industrial complex NPO Mashinostroyenia. When I see this wise man, I certainly consult with him. We find common themes.
- What is the participation of KTRV in "Brahmos"?
- Through the MIC "NPO Mashinostroyenia" we own 49% of the shares of the "Bramos" enterprise. The corporation is extremely interested in its development.
- Among the priority areas of the KTRV's work is the development and production of hypersonic weapons systems, about which they write and talk a lot. How advanced is the Corporation in this area? Are there already products "in hardware"? There is a lot of talk about Rusnano, but products based on new technologies, new physical principles - nothing …
- About weapons, the less you say, the better the result, its production requires silence.
Indeed, hypersonic weapons systems are one of our priority areas. The country's leadership has spoken about this more than once. I cannot talk about specifics in this promising direction, but, believe me, quite a lot of interesting things are being done, including at the JSC "GosMKB" Raduga "them. AND I. Bereznyak”in Dubna, in JSC“MIC “NPO Mashinostroyenia” in Reutov, at other subsidiaries, at the head site.
The corporation cooperates quite well on this topic with the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering, with the V. P. Makeeva. We work very closely with various institutes of the Russian Academy of Sciences and personally with Vladimir Evgenievich Fortov, with the Advanced Research Fund. This work is multifaceted, multispectral. It covers sectors such as materials science, avionics, aerodynamics, engines, and warheads.
- “I think that the beginning of the 2020s will be marked by reaching Mach 6-7,” these are your words. What kind of product will give such a number of Machs? From the scant reports, one can only learn that the Reutov NPO Mashinostroyenia is developing a promising hypersonic cruise missile and hypersonic combat equipment for intercontinental ballistic missiles.
- I can neither confirm nor deny these media reports. In the press, a lot of different and contradictory information appears on this closed topic.
- It is planned to create new means of destruction for the promising aviation complex of front-line aviation (PAK FA). What are these means? What is their novelty? When will the promising front-line aviation complex receive them?
- We are the main developers of advanced aircraft weapons. The specificity of the PAK FA is that the weapon must be placed inside the fuselage so that the aircraft has a smaller effective dispersion surface (EPR), that is, greater stealth, which will increase the survivability of the aircraft. For us, these are additional difficulties, weight and size restrictions. If the rocket is hiding inside the fuselage, at least its plumage should be folded.
- You mentioned one of the principles of weapon development. What else can you name?
- We are developing short, medium and long-range air-to-air weapons, anti-ship weapons, multipurpose guided guided bombs. Prospects for the development of weapons are an increase in range, an increase in combat load, flight speed, all-weather and round-the-clock, reaching extremely low and extremely high altitudes, complicating the flight trajectory with rounding the terrain.
Add to this the development of multispectral homing heads, since in this area we are slightly behind some Western competitors. At the same time, one should remember about the criterion "efficiency - cost". The missile should cost at least an order of magnitude less than the target it should hit. So, if a rocket weighing 600 kg is capable of destroying a ship with a displacement of up to 5 thousand tons, its production is apparently justified.
Such weapons require, among other things, skilled use. Those who defend the principle of “fired the missile - forgot” are not always right, they say, it will find the target itself. There are quite a few parameters for the use of weapons: the choice of the launch zone, the preparation of the product, the correct assignment of targets …
- Unmanned aerial vehicles (and aviation of the sixth generation was conceived as an unmanned aerial vehicle) today are made for different purposes. And now it's time to arm them. Does KTRV do this? What is this weapon? How effective is it? What is the forecast for new weapons for UAVs?
- For us, there are no significant differences in weapons for manned aircraft and unmanned aircraft. Much depends on the size of the attack UAVs, which are unlikely to reach the parameters in the near future, for example, the Tu-160. Weapons for future UAVs should be smaller and, probably, more intelligent.
- You most likely know about a specialized computing subsystem (SVP) of a small private company "Hephaestus and T" from the city of Zhukovsky. SVP allows to bring the accuracy of hitting conventional free-falling bombs to the level of high-precision weapons. Do you want to join forces with this company to increase the accuracy of your UAB and KAB hits?
- The Hephaestus workers are great, but the SVP is a device for increasing the accuracy of hitting free-falling bombs directly in the bombing zone. Our corrected aerial bombs hit targets at a distance of 20–80 km. This is their main difference. When the air defense system is suppressed, of course, free-falling bombs must be used to destroy the remaining infrastructure - they are much cheaper. For us, this development is not yet relevant. But if the expediency of using SVP or other similar systems for our products is proven, we will certainly use it.
- Over the past three years, 14 new products have been tested at KTRV. Name some of them, if possible. How many will go into serial production next year?
- These are, in particular, the Kh-31PD anti-radar missiles, the Kh-31AD and Kh-35UE anti-ship missiles, the modular Kh-38ME type multipurpose missiles, which can be equipped with combined guidance systems, including satellite navigation, and also be equipped with various types of warheads. These are new short, medium and long-range air-to-air missiles. All of them can be classified as promising products. Today, about a dozen more products are at various stages of testing.
- Tell us at least in a few words about the "Package-E" system, which includes a torpedo and an anti-torpedo and which has no analogues among your western competitors. Didn't they figure out how to combine a torpedo and an anti-torpedo?
- Frigates and corvettes are armed with the "Packet-E / NK" system. One launcher carries a torpedo designed to destroy submarines and an anti-torpedo to intercept torpedoes.
- How is their action spread out in time?
“Depends on which threat was first spotted. Torpedo and anti-torpedo are not interconnected with each other.
- We are not pioneers here?
- I do not know of any other such examples abroad. I guess we have priority.
- The Shkval-E miracle rocket (without exaggeration - a miracle going under water at a speed of 360 km per hour) is currently being upgraded by the Corporation. In the course of modernization, will its main disadvantages be eliminated - high noise and short range? How will this be achieved?
- We are following the path of increasing speed and range. One can argue with the statement that the disadvantage is noise. The product moves at a speed of 100 m per second - no noise here, but even "heard" this torpedo will be able to hit the target.
- A little about the civilian products of KTRV. Are wind turbines and solar power generators in demand? Our media does not report on renewable energy at all. In Russia, wind power plants and solar power generators make up a negligible percentage. It is in Holland that the hills are lined with huge windmills …
- Our enterprise GosMKB "Raduga" was engaged in wind turbines. There are developments, for example, the use of old generators from rocket engines in wind turbines. Unfortunately, the efficiency of wind turbines is low, so they are not in great demand at today's cost parameters. We do not deal with solar power generators.
- Is there any feedback with the users of your products? Did you implement something from the suggestions received from them?
- The specialists of the corporation carry out field tests of our products together with the military in order to take into account their comments and wishes. A lot of information is provided by the use of our products in real combat operations. What is happening now in Syria is a huge amount of information for us, a tool that we are trying to use. It is one thing to conduct tests in a familiar environment, in a familiar climate, and another thing - in completely different climatic conditions, with a different terrain.
- Do you take into account in the production of weapons and military equipment the fact that military operations will be network-centric, hybrid and, moreover, with the use of weapons based on new physical principles?
- We must proceed from the requirements of the military. We ourselves do not formulate the terms of reference for the product. But we regularly meet with representatives of the Ministry of Defense. They also take our opinion into account, but the military always orders what they need: farther, faster and cheaper.
- And if you see that the task is obviously impracticable?
- So we tell them about it.
- What is the general relationship of KTRV with the Ministry of Defense?
- There is a daily practical work on the results of which everything depends. Today it is clear that the defense industry and the military have a need for each other, it is clear that we will not achieve success individually. This is the incentive that makes us look at our work critically, without blaming the other side for failures.
- And it seems to me that there is only one criterion: there is a state defense order - good relations, no - bad ones.
- Not necessary. It is possible with a normal state defense order to tell manufacturers: weapons are bad, workers are armless … And the fact that engineers left in the difficult 1990s, vocational schools were destroyed, and they began to re-equip technically only in recent years, is not always remembered and taken into account. Now the prestige of the technical professions is growing. I also judge by the Moscow Aviation Institute, where we have two departments, by the Moscow State Technical University. N. E. Bauman, where we have a whole faculty. People went to the defense industry again.
- The implementation of which KTRV products in the country and abroad will allow you to look confidently into the future, provide funds for new R&D?
- For example, our aircraft-based Kh-35E missile for equipping the Uran-E and Bal-E ballistic missile systems allowed us to survive a very difficult period in the late 1990s and the next decade, since it has a huge export potential. The anti-radar Kh-31P, the RVV-AE medium-range air-to-air missile - all these products are still in great demand today. Systems such as Package-E / NK, corrected bombs, will of course be in demand. We have a product line that allows us to count on large export earnings.
- How many countries have you made happy with your products?
- A few dozens.
- You were personally ranked among the top five top managers in Russia in the Mechanical Engineering nomination according to the Top 1000 Russian Managers rating. How do you assess this sign of attention and recognition? Expected?
- Of course not.
- What were the selection criteria?
- This is a whole structured assessment system based on indicators of financial and economic activity. In particular, the volume of sales of products, growth rates, the volume of net profit, the availability of new developments, and so on are taken into account.
- The heads of defense industry enterprises often complain about the lack of specialists, sometimes about their inability to work. Are you having the same problem?
- The success of defense enterprises depends on the people who work for them, on how well-coordinated the team is, and each manager in his place sees specialists who can be entrusted with this or that work. Sometimes a person sits down in an official chair and thinks that he is irreplaceable. He is already 70 years old, 80 years old, and he keeps thinking: “Let me give you two more years as a bail. Well, am I doing a bad job? " Maybe not bad, only after such leaders there is often a "scorched field" left.
I believe that the old principle “Personnel decides everything” should prevail in personnel policy. If young people see that they have good prospects, things go very differently. A person, having worked in second or third roles for two decades, will a priori be afraid to make decisions. Of course, there may be isolated exceptions.
- Any leader in the defense industry is also just a person with strengths and weaknesses. I listen with curiosity to the lectures of Vladimir Georgievich Zhdanov, who, together with the confessor of the President of Russia, priest Tikhon Shevkunov, organized the "Common Cause" movement a few years ago to sober up the country. How do you feel about such a general sobering up?
- A person must have a head and knowledge of measure. How's your birthday, holiday without a glass of wine?
- But the organizers of the Common Cause believe that only with a sobering up can Russia truly revive.
- On the whole, I agree: Russia needs to be sober. But for this, lectures on the dangers of drunkenness are not enough, it is necessary to build gyms in schools, especially in rural ones (before they were almost in every yard), and not to admire clubs like Chelsea. And partly to change the policy of the media, theaters, cinema, in order to get benefits and moral examples from them, and not another specific interpretation of the classics.
- What would you like to wish on the eve of the Corporation's anniversary?
- I would like to express my gratitude to all our subcontractors and partners with whom we have shared our successes and difficulties all these 15 years. Separately, thank all the labor collectives of the Corporation's enterprises, without which the solution of the tasks set before us would be impossible.
