I met Timofei Panteleevich Punev by chance. One of my acquaintances once let slip that she knew the wife of a military pilot who fought. "A fighting man," she warned me, "and his temperament … you will see for yourself."
So I became the owner of a phone, which I immediately called. Punev immediately agreed to my request to meet. "What did you Timofey Panteleevich use to fight?" “On pawns, on Pe-2”. Good.
At the meeting, Punev immediately seized the initiative. “Yes, what am I going to tell you, everything has already been written. Read it,”and he handed me a photocopy of a newspaper article. In order to respect the owner, I read it. Between us, the article seemed to me frankly weak. It was written by some date and told about the pilots of the 36th Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Regiment, dazzling with phrases like “… showing unparalleled heroism …”, “… filling our hearts with hatred of the enemy …”, “… but, nothing could stop the guardsmen … "and so on. "Political" crap.
"Well, how?" the owner asked me. “Weak,” I replied diplomatically. "Rubbish," said Punev, "the only good thing about this article is that it tells about our guys, otherwise it will take a little while and they will forget about us altogether." "And you didn't buy anything!" - he praised me - well, come on, ask your questions. I only ask you about one thing, let's not lie."
A conversation with Punev "captured" me right away, as it always happens when you have an intelligent, knowledgeable, sensitive and instantly responsive interlocutor. And Temperament, just like that, with a capital letter.
There was also talk about the influence of temperament on his military career. When it came to awards, Punev said: “You know, I don’t have a single award“for a combat mission”. All my awards "based on the results of the combat period" are when the regiment is taken out for replenishment and reorganization, rewarding the survivors. I am like that, if I hear any lies, I spoke out immediately, regardless of ranks and titles. He expressed everything in person, even to the chief of staff, even to the political officer, even to the Member of the Military Council. Conflicting was horror, what are the awards. I didn’t fight for them. And now I think I probably fought the wrong way."
We met several more times, the published interview is the result of several meetings.
Curriculum Vitae: Timofey Panteleevich Punev. Born on August 2, 1922, in the village of Kugulta (now Stavropol Territory). Father is a surgeon, mother is a paramedic. In 1940, immediately after completing a ten-year period in the village of Kugulta, he entered the Krasnodar Military Pilot School. Since 1942 at the front. He fought in the 1st separate squadron of high-speed bombers (Karelian Front) and in the 36th Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, Berlin Bomber Regiment (1st Ukrainian Front). After the war, he held various positions in the regiments of the 4th Guards Bomber Aviation Corps and the 164th Guards Aviation Division. After the war, he actively flew on the Il-28 bomber. Chevalier of many military orders and medals. The last post was the head of the regiment's air rifle training. In 1960, he retired from the ranks of the armed forces, with the rank of lieutenant colonel. Currently he lives in Stavropol.
I tried to preserve as much as possible the originality of the speech of Timofey Panteleevich, a combat pilot, a soldier of the Great Patriotic War, who fought CORRECTLY.
Cadet of the Krasnodar Flight School Punev. 1940 year.
The photo was taken in a studio in Krasnodar.
According to Punev, his mother, who came from Stavropol, visited him in 1940. The command of the school gave him six days of vacation (an incredible luxury for a cadet). This photo was taken while on vacation. The only vacation he had from 1940 to 1946.
A. S. Timofei Panteleevich, when and where did you start to study flying?
T. P. In August 1940, I entered the Krasnodar Flight School.
From the 4th grade I dreamed of becoming a pilot. Moreover, it was a bomber pilot. I remember, I just came from Stavropol, and the graduates are so beautiful, in full dress, I opened my mouth with delight. Two hundred supermen, well, I thought so then. Dark blue dress uniform - dandies, grooms, you can go blind.
When I entered, the Krasnodar Flight School trained pilots for bomber aviation and there should have been a normal three-year training period, however, our course was shortened and we were supposed to become lieutenants in two years. We were only glad of this - a year less before the coveted "head over heels".
We just entered, and already saw ourselves as lieutenants - commanders of the Red Army. There was in our detachment a cadet from the former radio gunners, he fought in the Finnish war, and he went to Moscow to receive the Order of the Red Banner already as a cadet. We had him as a classroom commander (for us a big boss) and we asked him to bring us "cubes". He received the order and brought us "kubari", four for each. This is for release, which should be already in two years!
And then there were rumors. In the army, this is always the case, at first there are rumors, which then, surprisingly, are always confirmed. The rumors were one worse than the other and, the worst, that they would not give us command ranks, but then we did not pay attention to them.
Suddenly, the December issue is released as junior lieutenants. We, like dogs, walked after them and teased them: "Younger boys, young men!" Well, we were stupid then, stupid. Here in front of them the lieutenants were released, their juniors, and what would happen to us, we did not think.
And then in January another order comes - to release everyone as sergeants. We have such overlaps, offensive and stupid. Right there at these unfortunate junior lieutenants, they ripped off the "cubes", in general, demoted them to sergeants. And, what is most surprising, not everyone was demoted, but only those who did not manage to get the appointment. Those who managed to make an appointment and left earlier (to the Far East) remained junior lieutenants, I learned this during the war.
When the war began, we quickly began to write reports with a request to be sent to the front as a volunteer. Complete voluntariness, no fools. I also remember everyone pointed out that we speak German and, in a parenthesis, so modestly - “with a dictionary”. Although, God forbid, if at least two dozen words, who knew. Even then, foreign languages were not the strongest side of education. It seemed that those who spoke German would be sent faster, and then we’ll show the Fritz! The Fritzes will hunt when I appear! Now, from a height, from my experience, I can say that what I was then would have been enough at the front for two days.
By the end of college, I had a total flight time of only 40 hours. Really, all we could do was take off and land. No ability to look around in the air, no group flying. "We were all taught a little, something and somehow." This is something and somehow - it's about me then. Now I understand that in comparison with the Germans we were wild dropouts, because the Germans released pilots with a flight time of 400 (four hundred) hours. An incredible difference.
I was also released as a sergeant. I became a senior sergeant already at the front, after being wounded.
A. S. And what did you, in the school, have two graduations a year?
T. P. Yes. Only I don't remember what year it started, from 1940 or earlier. Then I did not pay attention.
A. S. In the school, on what types of aircraft did you study?
T. P. At the school we mastered the following types of aircraft: U-2, SB, R-Z, TB-3.
At U-2 - initial flight training.
On SB and P-Z, they practiced combat use. Bombing - mainly with P-Z and, a little, with SB. They fired at the cones and at the "ground" ones - this is already from the SB.
P-Z was considered secret. This is a variant of the R-5, but its engine was an M-34, and not an M-17, as on the R-5. Due to the more powerful engine, the ZET's speed was 20-30 km / h higher. The M-34 smoked terribly, and drove the heat into the cockpit so that in summer it was extremely difficult and unpleasant to sit in it. Sometimes, you look, "Z" comes in for landing, and the cadet's head is overboard. Smoke plus heat - rocked instantly.
A. S. And what could be secret about P-Z? After all, old stuff
T. P. Well, yes, what kind of "old"? "Thunderstorm of the sky"!
A small digression. In the early 50s, the Il-28 aircraft appeared in our company. This is a "front-line bomber" class aircraft, it takes three tons of bombs, powerful cannon armament, in general, the aircraft is the most modern. It is classified to the point of improbability, to the extent that the secret operating manual does not contain an image of the navigator's cockpit, since in this cockpit there is already a super-secret OPB-6SR sight - a bomber optical sight associated with a radar (radar). The sight is so secret that in the super-secret one in the instructions for its operation there is only a diagram of the kinematic part, without electronics, which (electronics) is already super-super-secret. All jokes aside, you look at an electronic diagram, and next to you is a submachine gun guard. That's what secrecy was. Imagine our surprise when, while studying at the 4th Combat Use Center in Voronezh, we find in the local library a completely unclassified, complete instruction for the American sight of the Norden company. Unclassified because the Americans either removed this sight from service, or were preparing to remove it. Moreover, this is the American "Norden" an exact copy of our OPB-6SR, more precisely, ours - an exact copy of the American one. So much for the secrecy! Stolen and classified, because nothing better was invented.
You probably think why I told you this story and what does it have to do with P-Z? This is so that you understand, when they secret all sorts of garbage, it means only one thing - things are really bad. As our preparation before the war. "Secrecy" P-Z is from the same family. They hid their own weakness from themselves.
A. S. Was the TB-3 also bombed?
No. Initially, TB-3 flew for group exercises, however, they were soon canceled, they thought that it was too risky and we began to fly on the TB-3 “for communication”. TB-3 was the only type of aircraft on which a radio station was installed - RSB. Theoretically, it was believed that when we were flying, we had to receive from the ground and transmit to the ground, by radio communication, various text, and after landing, compare the result obtained, verify the text. It seemed that everything was the same, we passed the tests. But it was bullshit, for all the time I had never heard the "earth" and did not believe that anyone could hear me.
The main form of communication between the "ground" and the aircraft was the laying of the Popham banner (there was such an English marshal). A cloth is taken, a "T" is laid out of it, and on the cloth there are special valves that bend and, by shortening the "T" parts, allow certain information to be transmitted. The simplest example: if your left "leg" is not released, then the left half of the "T" is folded onto the panel.
And if it was necessary to transfer something more complicated to the plane, then (I remember a picture from the book), two masts were installed, and a package hung on a cable between them. P-5, flying low above the ground, hooked the package with a hook. That was the connection.
We had radio communications in an embryonic state. We were cavemen, in the sense of radio communication. I don’t remember what this radio would be on TB-3, even if it worked fine for someone.
A. S. Timofei Panteleevich, on what type of aircraft did you fly the most at the school?
T. P. 40 school hours were distributed approximately equally, between all types of aircraft. Although, from the school I graduated to the Security Council.
A. S. Didn't you fly Pe-2 to school?
T. P. No. Roughly speaking, they did not even know that such an aircraft existed. Although I first saw the Pe-2 at the school.
In 1941, as usual, we had a very fruitful weekend planting trees. We, cadets, always went out on weekends or planting trees, or digging caponiers for fuel and lubricants warehouses. The fact that for such a purpose bulldozers exist or, there, excavators, and the weekends can somehow be spent in a different way, we had no idea.
So we dig the earth and hear an unusual, sharp ringing over the airfield. We look up, the cloud cover is three, and these clouds are literally pierced by an unfamiliar plane. It rushes over us, and his speed !! … We have 140 km / h in the school, it was considered a combat one, but here, it seems, 140 is landing. We hear - he is landing. We did not have a concrete strip, and it looks like the pilot "attached" the car from a high alignment, the dust was a pillar and the car was already at the end of the strip. Well, the speed! We are to the plane, and here from all sides: “Where ?! Back! It's a secret plane! " Like this: you can't show a plane to a cadet, only at the front, when he goes to fight! So they did not show it up close. This was the Pe-2, one of the first. I fell in love with this car right away! A plane of rare beauty! A beautiful plane flies beautifully.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, in which regiment and where did they start fighting?
T. P. In the fall of 1942, I went to war too. The school was already "rounding out", since the Germans were heading south at full speed. Confusion and panic, but they managed to let us out, but I went not to the south, but to the Karelian front.
Arrived, and there is already full snow and terrible cold. I got into the 1st separate aviation squadron of high-speed bombers. There were, it seems, 15 SB bombers. The personnel of the squadron had fought a lot, my squadron commander was on fire, I remember his scarred face. We flew with him a little, to assess my flying "skill". My "skill" did not impress him, but since you are considered a combat pilot, you have to go into battle. He says to me: “A combat mission is planned tomorrow. Keep in mind, your task is to see only my tail. If you start looking somewhere else and look away, you are lost. " That was all he could do to improve my flying skills. As it turned out, a lot …
I remembered this rule for the whole war and was convinced of its truth many times. Those who did not know this rule, forgot, or out of stupidity came off - they knocked down immediately. There were so many such greens killed during the war!
The statistics of the bombers was simple: if he was not shot down in the first five sorties, then he goes to another category, where the chance of shooting down is somewhat less. For example, I was wounded for the first time on the fourth or fifth sortie. They hurt me easily, I didn't even stop flying and I have no information about this injury. There was no time for inquiries then.
If you made ten sorties, then you can slowly tear your gaze from the tail of the presenter. For example, only on the tenth flight did I start to “watch the air”, that is. slowly look around. Looked around, wow! I'm flying! The first nine sorties I had no idea where I was flying and what I was bombing, I immediately lost my orientation, that was such a "dashing falcon". But he did not lose the leader! And on the eleventh flight I was shot down. Fighters.
A. S. Tell me, Timofey Panteleevich, by the beginning of the war, the SB was very outdated or was it a sufficiently full-fledged bomber?
T. P. An absolutely outdated car. He burned terribly. The tanks were unprotected. The speed is small.
SB was "oak", the pilots have such a concept. This is the name of an aircraft that is so stable that great efforts must be made to change its course. At the SB, everything was controlled by cable drives, so the efforts on the steering wheels had to be applied decently. He reacted slowly and unwillingly to giving the rudders. An anti-fighter maneuver on the SB is unrealistic. One word is "oak".
The onboard armament is weak - only ShKAS are such an infection! The Germans started to "hammer" us from 800 meters, they will join the tail and went … And the ShKAS limit is 400 meters.
A. S. In reality, what was the SB's speed and what was the bomb load?
T. P. On performance characteristics 400 km / h, but this is nonsense. On the 400s, the SB was shaking, it seems that it is about to fall apart. Yes, and would have collapsed if they had flown. Really 320 km / h. Bomb load 600 kg.
A. S. Was there a fighter cover then, in 1942?
T. P. Sometimes. Of those eleven sorties, we were covered two or three times, with I-16 fighters and, it seems, once with "harricanes". However, I have not seen them. I watched the host's tail. We were told about whether there would be cover or not at the pre-flight briefing, from here I remember
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, tell me, on this eleventh sortie, how many were you and how many German fighters? Did our fighters cover you?
T. P. We took off with a nine. There was no fighter cover. We bombed out, and on the way back the Germans caught up with us. Our height was about five thousand. How many were there? And the devil only knows! I realized that they shoot at me only when the shells began to burst, and a sharp pain in my left leg. I haven't seen any fighters. A completely surprise attack.
The left engine caught fire. Fell out of order. I ought to jump, because the tanks can easily explode, but I don’t know where I am! Either over our territory, or over the occupied one. Here is such a "proud falcon", but jumping into captivity is not for me. Speed 190, the car is on fire, we have to go home, but where is he home? Until the fire partitions burned out, I was fastened and flew. The flames thundered! And as the partitions burned out, I jumped out of the cockpit at about 3500 m. I jumped out so that I could open my parachute at the very ground, I was afraid that German fighters would shoot me in the air. He landed at ours, however, there was a hole in his leg, his thigh broke.
A. S. The navigator and the shooter had jumped out by that time?
T. P. And the devil only knows! There was no SPU on the SB, so we could not negotiate.
A. S. So, there was no communication between the crew members on the SB?
T. P. There was a connection, her mother! Pneumatic mail. This aluminum tube ran along the fuselage and connected the cockpits. You write a note, in its "cartridge" and in the pipe, or to the navigator, or to the radio operator. A special "accordion" several times "chuhhhul" and that's all … "To the village grandfather. Konstantin Makarych ". An utter foolishness! How I remember it …! Rave! We were not preparing for war, but …! Chkalov, Gromov flew, the whole country tensed, but this is for propaganda posters, and if you take the realities, the state is terrible.
A. S. But how, without the SPU, the navigator took you to the combat course?
T. P. And I had three bulbs on the dashboard. "Red to the left, green to the right, white straight ahead." Their navigator lit from his cockpit. Nonsense and rubbish.
In general, I bombed "in the lead". He opened the hatches - I opened them, his bombs "went off" - I also began to pour in.
You know, at the school it seemed that there was no plane more beautiful and better than the SB, and now I can't even hear about it.
A. S. I heard that the Germans began to shoot our pilots who escaped by parachutes later, around 1943
T. P. No. Already in 1942 they were practicing in full. Easy. It happened in 1941 that the Germans buried our downed pilots with military honors, this was told to me by the guys who fought at that time. When you advance 50 km a day, it’s just right for the enemy to shout: “Hey! Stop! Give me a break! " Then you can play with chivalry and nobility. By the end of 1942, the Germans realized that they had "gotten themselves into trouble" and that was it, their games of nobility were over.
A. S. Have you landed at the location of our units?
T. P. No. It turned out more interesting there.
While I was sitting in the cockpit and when I flew to the ground, there was no fear. Honestly. In general, everything was not happening to me. On landing, either from pain or from loss of blood, I lost consciousness. I woke up from the fact that someone was dragging me. He grabbed the slings and drags him through the snow. Dragging silently. Trying to figure out whether ours or the Finns? "Well, I think - if they were dragging ours, they would have guessed to remove the harness from me." So the Finns. Trying to find a gun. I felt it, but I can't take it, my gloves fell off in the air, my hands are frozen, my fingers don't work. Such an insult took me, at my helplessness, that I began to swear. The scariest words. Suddenly I hear: “I woke up! Sweetheart, alive! I'm dragging you … "Some girl. It turned out that I landed a few kilometers from the village where their hospital was located (she worked there and dragged me there). This girl was returning to her village and saw me leave the plane. Since the plane was ours, she immediately ran to me. Well, we took a break (and she dragged me for a long time) and then it was more fun.
Lucky me incredibly. Lucky not to explode in mid-air. It was lucky that the Germans did not shoot. When landing with a wounded leg, he was not killed - he was also lucky. Lucky that girl found me right away. It was lucky that my hands froze, so the girl, when she dragged me "unconscious", did not shoot. I would have shot it - I was frozen, because I could not move because of my leg. And the last thing - there was a hospital in the village, in which they immediately operated on my leg and, with this, they saved it for me, this is luck, so luck. In general, throughout the war, I was very lucky.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, how did you start fighting in the Pe-2?
T. P. Lying in the hospital, I was eager to go to the front, honestly, not foolishly. I was afraid that I would be recognized as unfit, because my leg was completely rotated. No matter how much I trained, I could not get rid of the limp. Frankly he limped and how he did not work out his gait - nothing came of it. After the war, I operated on this leg in a new way and the fragments are still sitting in it. But then nothing, the commission passed, was recognized as suitable.
After I was discharged from the hospital, on February 1, 1943, I ended up in the 4th air brigade, it was stationed in Kazan, and the 18th ZAP (reserve aviation regiment) was in the brigade. In ZAP, I immediately began retraining on the Pe-2.
It was a good aviation tradition that every pilot after a school or hospital had to go through a reserve aviation regiment. It was only at the end of the war that the pilots immediately entered the combat regiments, when we who had gone through the war were already "bison". And then, in 1943, only through the ZAP. It was correct.
SB forgotten, only Pe-2! I almost prayed for this Pe-2. This is a plane! Many pilots were afraid of him, and I loved him very much.
I was very zealous, so retraining took me a little, four months, and in flight time 40-50 hours. In ZAP they worked out a lot of exercises, a full course of combat use: dive bombing, this was the main type of bombing, horizontal bombing, but this is less. They also fired at ground targets, fired at the cone, this is with machine guns. The arrows and the navigator also fired at the cone. The detachment of the link was worked out. They studied "tightly", not like at the school. The polygon with the airfield was very close, literally, only the bombs took off. They bombed with ordinary bombs, not training bombs. All flights were made by a full crew. Before these flights, I was greedy, I wanted to get to the front faster.
Four months later, the "merchants" flew in and took me to their regiment, in which he went until the end of the war, to the 36th GBAP, which by the end of the war became the 36th Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Aviation Regiment. The regiment then fought on the 1st Ukrainian Front and fought heavy air battles. I started in it as an ordinary pilot, senior sergeant, and ended the war as a flight commander, an officer.
A. S. You said that many Pe-2 pilots were afraid. Why did it happen?
T. P. When you have only 5-15 hours of flight time on a bomber, it is very difficult to “tame” such a fast and powerful "beast" as the Pe-2. Hence the fear
A. S. How many planes were there in the 36th regiment? The planes of which plant were in the regiment? What was the difference between the cars of different factories?
T. P. Let's count. Three full squadrons, 9 aircraft each. Now - a control link, 3 cars. And 3-4 vehicles in reserve, without crews. A total of 33-34 aircraft. Since 1944, each air regiment already had at least 10 unmanned aircraft in reserve, then there were at least 40 aircraft per regiment.
The planes were sent to the regiment from two factories, Kazan and Irkutsk. They differed only in color, otherwise absolutely identical cars.
A. S. Was the Pe-2's cockpit comfortable, was there an overview, equipment, armored back?
T. P. Very comfortable. Great, battle machine. The review is good. Forward, sideways very well. Obviously, there was no view back, the navigator and the radio operator were looking back.
It was very well equipped. Compared to our other aircraft, the whole range of flight instruments is simply excellent. At that time, it seemed to us, an incredible abundance of instruments, and the artificial horizon, and the GPC (gyro-compass) to the magnetic compass, etc. The whole set, everything that is required. The pilot had a PBP collimator sight, the sight provided both aiming when diving and firing from course machine guns. The navigator had an OPB sight (optical). Good sights, high hitting accuracy provided.
There were no bulletproof glasses, plexiglass. The pilot had a very reliable armored backrest, with an armored head, by the way, it mostly interfered with the view back.
The pilot's seat was very well regulated, back and forth and up and down.
A. S. Did you use oxygen equipment, if so how often? Is this equipment reliable?
T. P. Rarely. We practically did not fly above 4000 m, and there a young healthy guy does not need oxygen. But, it was always ready. It worked reliably.
A. S. How difficult was it to leave the cockpit, was the flashlight dropped at high speed?
T. P. The canopy dropped easily and it was easy to leave the cockpit, but it had its biggest design flaw. From the PIT tube (Pitot), which sticks out above the cockpit, to the tail washers went one wire antenna, a liaison and a command. When the flashlight is dropped and the pilot or navigator jumps out, he could fall under one of the wires and "slide" along it to the leading edge of the tail washer, which literally chopped off his head. Naturally, it flew off like a watermelon.
With us, it is always so, where the designer does not do it, there is an ordinary soldier easily. Our craftsmen changed the design of the antenna mounting, making special "ears" and introducing an additional cable, with the help of which the dropped flashlight "pulled" the antennas from the AHP tube. Ingenious and simple. Using the same system, they later began to make antennas directly at the factories. There were no more problems with leaving the cockpit.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, how difficult was Pe-2 control?
T. P. The car is unusually light. The Pe-2 found an optimal, I would say excellent, balance between ease of control and stability. And she walked steadily, and reacted to the steering wheels instantly. An incredibly balanced plane.
The Pe-2 was a new step in Soviet aviation. It was unusually electrified. Everything was done with electricity: cleaning and lowering the landing gear, brake flaps, trim tabs, flaps; in general, everything that was previously done with cable drives. Therefore, the effort on the rudders was required minimal.
On landing, however, with a decrease in speed, it was necessary to "keep" very carefully.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, how true, in your opinion, are the stories of the veterans about the disgusting landing characteristics of the Pe-2 ("goat", etc.), which (characteristics), in their words, "… killed more crews than the Fritzes"?
T. P. You must be able to fly! Don't know how to fly, don't blather!
What I want to tell you … After the war, I was in Kazan at the grave of Petlyakov. And there were various inscriptions on the monument, and not the most pleasant ones as well. Swearing, speaking directly. I declare: Petlyakov did not deserve this abuse! Pe-2 is a great car!
When landing, many pilots dumped on the "fourth turn", when the speed was minimal, and if the "leg" a little "passed" then - fuck! Already in the ground. It was, but … when on a combat course, the "anti-aircraft gun" hits (and it hits according to certain mathematical laws), and I have to give something in opposition to this mathematical science. I have to maneuver. So, when the anti-aircraft gun hits, then you “stick your foot” on the “pawn” and it slides away from the anti-aircraft fire, and for some reason no one here fell out.
The Pe-2's handling was excellent. I'll tell you a case for you to appreciate. We had such an episode:
Vitya Glushkov. We go on a combat course to bomb Krakow. Large city, strongest air defense. We go three thousand, no more. And as the shell slammed into his plane, punched a hole - a car, hop! and lay down on her back. And the bombs are hanging! We usually took 800 kg. They put him on his back, he spit-pyr - the astroluk does not open, the entrance hatch does not open - it is jammed. This is understandable, loaded on the wings, deformed the fuselage and simply "clamped" all the hatches. He is there like a sparrow rushing about the cabin, but he can not do anything. And the car is coming! Normal level flight, only lying on your back. Wheels upwards, with a bomb load! We look, this "sparrow" has ceased to rush and is sitting. He sat, sat, then, oh-oops! and brought her back to normal flight. Bombed and flew home. We then tell him: "She did not let you, the fool, be taken prisoner!" - because in such a situation, as it happened with him, it is necessary to jump.
I'll tell you more. Usually the dive is at an angle of 70 degrees. We had guys who, being carried away, dived the plane at a large, or even negative angle (and this is a mistake, of course), but even in this case, the Pe-2 never lost control and the car came out great.
On landing, many "fought" not because the machine is bad, but because these pilots were completely untrained.
A. S. Did you fly in fur overalls in winter?
T. P. And in the summer.
A. S. How did it affect the usability, the overview? Did it bother you?
T. P. Well no. The cockpit was spacious and comfortable, the overalls did not interfere.
A. S And what were the options for flight uniforms in the war?
T. P. Overalls for winter, demi-season and summer. Summer is the usual fabric. Demi-season is a two-, three-layer durable fabric, and between the layers there is an interlayer such as batting and a bike. It was used most often. Winter - fur. We did not have flight jackets, they appeared after the war.
A. S. What kind of shoes were they? Did you have flight boots?
T. P. In the summer - boots, in the winter - high fur boots. Boots with high lacing, for the first time we have appeared after the war, trophy, German. During the war, there were no shoes.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, did you use shoulder straps?
T. P. They used everyone, both shoulder and waist, because in battle it was possible to thunder so …
A. S. Was the cabin heating?
T. P. No. It was cold in winter, there are holes everywhere, and from the navigator's side the cockpit is, in fact, open and blows into the machine-gun embrasures.
Sometimes, if your hands "get stiff", then you just start hitting the side hard, and so on until you "pinch" in your fingers.
A. S. Did all the Pe-2s have a radio station and an SPU?
T. P. Yes. Two radio stations. The pilot’s command room (I don’t remember what it was called), the RSB-2 liaison officer at the radio operator’s gunner. We stood in all cars. The command station was supposed to provide communication between the machines in the air and the pilot with the airfield, and the communication "long-range" communication with the ground. It was on the Pe-2 and SPU. The century when there was pneumatic mail is gone.
A. S. Did the radios work reliably?
T. P. No. It was our trouble then and our trouble now. These radio stations did not have what is called quartz stabilization, they were noisy, phonies, they cracked terribly. The command room, the pilots used to turn off, because all this roar, noise and cacophony was difficult to bear. The connection was disgusting. Sometimes, the command station worked so disgusting that communication with neighboring vehicles had to be maintained through the radio operator, this is bad, efficiency disappears completely. In general, leaving for the flight, we never knew how the stations would behave. Either the connection will be bad, or more or less. There has never been a good one.
The laryngophones were large and uncomfortable, like boxes. Their necks were irritated by them thoroughly, even a silk scarf did not help. In the midst of hostilities, when there are many flights, everyone walked with persistent neck irritation, since these boxes were hitting their skin with electricity. In addition, the laryngophones had to be knocked on from time to time, otherwise the coal powder would “bake” in them and they would stop working.
The SPU, unlike the walkie-talkies, worked very well, loudly and cleanly.
Happening. We stood in Rzeszow (this is in Poland) and landed on our airfield, the destroyed American B-17 "Flying Fortress". He sat on his stomach, the crew was sent to their own, and the plane remained with us at the airfield, apparently no one was going to restore it. We climbed this B-17, wanted to see what the allies were fighting at. American "laryngas" surprised us! For real. The size of a Soviet three-kopeck coin and as thick as a stack of three coins. Our radio gunners quickly riveted them so that they could be connected to our stations. The thing is the most convenient. In terms of radio electronics, we lagged behind the allies (and even from the Germans).
We wanted to look at the American sights too, but we didn't find a damn thing. It turns out that during a rough landing, the Americans' self-destruction system was triggered, and all more or less secret equipment was self-destructed by small explosions. I learned about self-destruction after the war.
A. S. Was there radio guidance on the target from the ground?
T. P. No. Our radios more or less provided only communication between crews in the air. We often did not hear the earth, and they often did not hear us.
We have one interesting episode connected with the radio station.
When the Berlin operation began, we suffered rather heavy losses. And from anti-aircraft fire and from fighters. Despite the fact that the war was drawing to a close, the Germans flew to the last. The Germans did not fly some kind of shantrap, but they flew "be calm!" If he came in and was successful - “write hello!”.
Once we two were shot down. I don't remember any more, either fighters, or anti-aircraft guns, but it doesn't matter. The analysis is underway, everyone is, of course, downcast. Losing two every day is too much! The regiment commander, Major Korotov, takes the floor: “Comrade commander - it is he who addresses the regiment commander, - I propose: when our pilots are on a combat course or conduct an air battle, from the command post to transmit inspiring slogans:“For the Motherland! For Stalin! Forward!" The regiment commander, Major Mozgovoy, was clever. A real intellectual, he was self-possessed and tactful to the point of improbability; he never raised his voice. But, here we see, it turns purple-purple, and then: “Sit down, Major Korotov! I always knew that you were … hmm … stupid, but I didn't know that you were that much!"
A. S. What were the actual bomb loads of the Pe-2?
T. P. Pe-2 easily took 1200 kg. This is if you take off from concrete airfields. True, maneuver with such a load is difficult. These are six bombs in bomb bays (three on cluster holders), two and two under the center section, and two in nacelles. Bombs "weave".
We, for the fight, usually took 800 kg in "hundred parts". And you take off from the ground without any problems, and maneuverability, despite such a load, is very good.
During the bombing of Breslau, we hung 4 250 kg each on an external suspension, respectively, we flew from 1000 kg.
Several times they took "five hundred" - the maximum caliber for us - two pieces.
They bombed with PTABs, they were on the internal suspension, in two cassettes, 400 pieces came out. 2, 5 kg bomb, on the "circle" - also 1000 kg.
A. S. What is the maximum caliber of bombs allowed by the internal suspension?
T. P. "Sotka". 100 kg.
You can't fix the 250 on the bomb rack, although it might fit into the bomb bay.
A. S. What was the vehicle's defensive armament?
T. P. The defensive armament was as follows: the navigator had a large-caliber "Berezin", the shooter had a ShKAS on the upper hemisphere, and the lower hatch mount was also a "Berezin". True, at first the navigator had ShKAS too, well, this is "not into what gates" and the guys in the regiment themselves altered the navigator's installation under the "Berezin" or invented any devilry to "depict" a large-caliber machine gun.
The navigator also had AG-2, aviation grenades, such as with a parachute. Press the button, it flies off and explodes in 300-400 meters. I do not know of a single case that these grenades would have shot down at least one German fighter, but the Germans quickly removed from the combat course. So these AGs were pretty smart stuff.
Well, plus everything the pilot had two course machine guns - the right "Berezin" and the left ShKAS.
A. S. Did you try to bomb these AGs?
T. P. How to bomb them? Didn't even think. They are there in the tail in the cassette, used only during air combat.
A. S. Was the effectiveness of the defensive weapons in general and the lower firing point in particular sufficient?
T. P. The defensive weapons were effective. If the formation holds, try to come!
As for the lower firing point. She not only repelled the attack of fighters from below, but also from her arrows fired at the ground. This point was effective. The shooter had a periscope sight, which provided quite a decent view and firing accuracy.
A. S. The radio operator from his ShKAS often fired upwards?
T. P. Rarely. During the battle, the navigator "held" the upper hemisphere, the radio operator - the lower one. It was worked out. If the navigator fired, the radio operator did not even stick out. And he has no time to look up, his task is to cover from below.
ShKAS radio operator, usually located in the side pivot installation. In the radio operator's compartment there was a window on each side, and each of these windows had a device for attaching the ShKAS kingpin. Depending on the place of which the slave was occupied by the plane, right or left, ShKAS was usually installed on the other side. If the need arose in battle, then the ShKAS could be easily and quickly transferred to the other side. The radio operator began to work with his ShKAS upward only if the navigator, for some reason, could not fire. Sometimes, when an urgent attack had to be repelled, the radio operators, who were physically stronger, would shoot upwards "from their hands", that is, without securing the machine gun. Of course, they did not get anywhere, but the attack was thwarted by the fighter, and he left the combat course.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, did the defensive weapons work reliably?
T. P. Reliable. Sometimes there were problems with ShKAS, and the Berezins worked very reliably.
A. S. Were there any cases when the navigator or radio operator took additional ammunition?
T. P. No. Where will he take it? Will he gird himself with ribbons? There is nowhere to take it. There is no extra space in the cabins.
A. S. In the "urapatriotic" literature, there are descriptions of such a case that a fighter from the navigator's fire "hides" behind the rudder washer and the navigator, shooting through the puck, knocks him down. So to speak, of two evils - a damaged tail unit or being shot down - chooses the lesser. This is real?
T. P. Theoretically, yes, but how will they sit down later? I have never heard of such shooting.
In reality, this was most likely the case. The navigator, in the heat of battle, “cut off” the puck (which could well have been), and this is a tribunal. The rest of the crew, knowing about such a case, confirmed the invented story about the "hidden" fighter, so that they would not bring their navigator under the tribunal. But, again, I have not heard of such cases.
It is much easier if the pilot “kicked” a little and the fighter would come out from behind the puck. The spaced keels provided the navigator with excellent firing sectors, for the fighter to hide behind these keels is a problem.
A. S. When did you start using diving in a real combat situation?
T. P. Immediately. For such targets as bridges, railway trains, artillery batteries, etc., they tried to bomb only from a dive.
A. S. Did you personally start dive bombing right away or did you bomb horizontally first? Were there brake grilles and how often was diving practiced? The ratio of diving and horizontal bombing?
T. P. How to bomb, dive or horizontal, was not my decision. The type of bombing depended on the target and, most importantly, on the weather.
There have always been grates, of course, but how can we get them out without them? According to the instructions, the entry into the dive is 3000 m, the output is 1800 m, and two of them are withdrawn - the pilot and the automatic dive. Moreover, the machine turns on when the grilles are released. Here, at 1800 m, the machine works and shifts the trimmer. But in reality, the exit from the dive is obtained at a lower altitude, because there is what is called a "drawdown", and this is another 600-900 meters. If there were no grates, then they would be stuck in the ground from subsidence. That is, the actual height of the withdrawal was usually in the region of 1100-1200 m.
There were five times fewer dives. Unfortunately.
A. S. Why are there fewer dives?
T. P. Because of weather. War does not wait for the weather. If the height of the clouds is below 3000 thousand, then the bombing had to be done from a horizontal flight.
A. S. When diving, due to the fault of the machine, did any risky situations arise?
T. P. Due to the fault of the car, there is no dive and excellent output. It was the fault of the crew.
It happened that the pilot had to "pressurize" the car in a dive. The need for "squeezing" appears when the navigator made a mistake while aiming. Then the pilot, in order to keep the target in the sight, is forced to constantly increase the dive angle ("squeeze"). As a result of this, after being dropped, the car is behind and below its own bombs and, during withdrawal, the bombs simply fall on the plane. Incredible cases, but they were. That was the "rebus-croxword". How to reset them? "Chickenpox" flew off, the fuses were detonated, the bomb was "ready", just touch it. Guys, on such occasions, got gray in a couple of minutes. But, our regiment was lucky, no one exploded.
A. S. Is bombing much more accurate from a dive?
T. P. Much, much more accurate.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, tell me, was it really possible to hit such a target as a tank from a dive?
T. P. No. In our country, a hit was considered when the bombs fall within 40-50 m from the aiming point, often they were stacked at 10. There will not be 10 meters in a tank, this is only by chance.
A. S. But the German dive bombers in their memoirs write that they almost hit the tank in the tower
T. P. Yeah. And the driver in the nose. It is he at home, over a glass of schnapps, he can tell such tales. I would try to tell me, I would bring him to clean water.
A. S. Did you bomb from a dive individually, "direct approach" or from a "circle" ("spinner")? Did you dive with a pair, a flight?
T. P. Basically, they bombed in units, three planes each, sometimes in fives. They could also individually, for example, during the "hunt" or reconnaissance. These types of missions were carried out by a single aircraft. It is more desirable to bomb alone, it is easier to correct mistakes.
In battle, they bombed from a direct approach, the "turntable" was only practiced in training flights, in battle it was not used. "Pinwheel" requires guidance from the ground, and we have a connection … yes, I told you. In addition, the aircraft in the "turntable" are very vulnerable to the actions of enemy fighters. At the beginning of the war, it was the Fritzes who “fattened” this “turntable”, and then when we had enough fighters, at first their “turntable” ran out, and then the bomber aviation.
A. S. What was the "hunt" for the Pe-2?
T. P. Usually the task was posed as follows (I give it abstractly): "To clear the railway section from point such-and-such to point such-and-such," this is 50-100 kilometers, for us not a distance. So we rush over this stretch, and if someone is caught, then all - "fiery hello!" Will not go anywhere, carried
We flew only single planes. Both hangers were loaded, sometimes only the inner one. Speed on the "hunt" is the most important thing, because "hunting" in war is like this: partly you are a hunter, partly you are a hare..
A. S. How many dive visits did you make?
T. P. There it was that way. When diving, it is not possible to use the internal harness. The Fritzes used an internal suspension, they had a special lever for throwing bombs, but we did not even have such a thing. Therefore, it turned out like this, the first approach dived, throwing bombs from the external suspension, and then the second approach from 1100-1200 m was bombed horizontally, freeing the internal one.
When we bombed Breslau, we made two dives by hanging 4 bombs of 250 kg each on the external sling. But the second dive is risky, you need to gain altitude again, and this takes time.
In the photo, the squadron engineer Nikolai Monastyrev.
The photo shows the pilot's emblem - "cat". Unfortunately, this is not Punev's plane; he has no photographs of his car.
A. S. Have you been installed on RS aircraft?
T. P. We do not have.
A. S. Have any measures been taken to strengthen the armament?
T. P. After a large-caliber machine gun was placed on the navigator in 1943, no measures were taken to enhance the armament. As soon as a large-caliber one was delivered to the navigator, the Pe-2's armament for conducting defensive air combat became simply magnificent.
A. S. At what distance were the course machine guns aimed?
T. P. 400 meters. All weapons are at 400 meters.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, did you have to "storm" the Pe-2? In general, was the attack on the Pe-2 carried out?
T. P. No. It didn't make any sense. Nobody stormed. There were enough stormtroopers who did this "haircut". We are bombers, we have a serious business. Artillery batteries, access roads, headquarters, fortified areas. You can't really stormed them, you can't do anything there with machine-gun fire, powerful bombs are needed there.
The PTAB bombing is closest to the attack. There, the bombing altitude is 350-400 m.
I fired machine guns at ground targets only at ZAP, never at the front.
A. S. And on the "hunt", for the purposes for which it is a pity to spend bombs, there are single vehicles, etc., they did not try to destroy them with machine guns?
T. P. Me not. What for? Going down is risky, the car is not armored, any bullet may be the last. For such targets, the shooter from his hatch installation will perfectly "work out", for this I do not need to go down.
A. S. What height will it be?
T. P. It fluctuated from 350 to 1200 meters. Usually 500-700 meters. From these heights, the shooter got out of his "berezin" perfectly, it is easy to shoot down, bullets fly well down.
A. S. PTABs bombed often?
T. P. Often. This was a very effective form of bombing. As soon as the accumulation of equipment or tanks where noted, they sent us to handle it with PTABs. Even from one plane 400 PTABs fly away in a cloud, if you fall under it, it will not seem a little. And we usually processed the accumulations of equipment with 9 or 15 planes. So imagine what was going on down there. PTAB is a serious bomb, albeit a small one.
Here's a case from 45.
It all started with Yurka Gnusarev, who was sent for reconnaissance. The weather was disgusting - a dense haze and horizontal visibility no more than a kilometer, which is not a distance for a high-speed aircraft. He reports on the radio: "Hit Biskau, there are tanks!" Fifteen crews are urgently recruited, three fives, the most experienced, those of which they will probably cope. I was among them. The leading navigator there must be a "bison" and we had such a one, Kostya Borodin, a navigator by vocation. They flew, I don't know how anyone, but my soul was in my heels. A little miss the navigator, and we "fit" into the city, not shit in sight. We flew at 350 meters, climb a little higher and the land is no longer visible. But, Kostya worked clearly. He took us straight to this column. The accumulation of equipment is capital. We, through the haze, saw this technique already at the first approach, but only directly under us. Bombing, of course, is impossible. If we drop, bombs will fall in front of the target. The Fritzes were "silent", did not shoot, apparently either they thought that we did not see them, or we jumped out too suddenly. Most likely, both. But we were "hooked", making a U-turn with three fives for bombing. Well, when we went the second run, they realized that they had been found and opened heavy fire. They lashed incredibly, from everything - from machine guns to anti-aircraft guns. We dropped the bombs, but we go straight, we need to carry out a photo control. I, these extra seconds, will not forget the grave.
We land - "hurray!" nobody was shot down. I was the last to sit down, happy to get out of the cockpit, waiting for the traditional "bull" from my technician. (We had a custom. When I come in for landing, he lit a cigarette for me. He just turned off the engines and immediately, the first puff, almost in the cockpit. Such a pleasure after the battle!) I am pleased - I see that everyone was taxiing, and he is gloomy. I told him: "What are you?" "Yes, you, commander, look!" Cars are standing - there is no living place. They are riddled terribly, who does not have half of the tail, who has a hole - the head will crawl through. They began to look at ours. Not a scratch! Then, when they began to look carefully, they found a bullet scratch on the fairing of the right oil cooler. Everything! I was damn lucky.
Already looking at the photo control, we were told: "Well, you've done it!" Then, the next day, ground reconnaissance reported that in this sortie we had destroyed 72 tanks, not counting other equipment. A very productive departure, I would say outstanding.
A. S. Did the pilot often use course machine guns in battle? If you had to use them, how did you personally shoot - with corrections for tracers or an exact turn to kill right away?
T. P. Yes, I often used course machine guns. I remember, when you start shooting from them, then a full cabin of smoke.
The fact is that some of the "funny" Fritzes were forgotten. He attacks from below from behind, and in order to maintain speed he jumps forward and goes steeply up the vertical, "shows a cross", and with this "cross" straight into my sight. I have two such "merry fellows". (I have no awards, nothing for them, I have an uncomfortable tongue for the authorities.) Although everyone saw that I slashed them. I remember when I shot down the first one, they told me: "Well, you are a good fellow" Corporal "(this was my call sign, after all, I was from sergeants, although I was already an officer), well, you cut him off!" I say: "What the fuck … to climb under my machine guns ?!"
There were no predictions and adjustments here, as he "showed the cross", only to the triggers for me - hhh! and that's it! What is my merit here? No. Don't go under my machine guns!
No, course machine guns are a very useful thing. I carried two stars on board, for the downed ones, and we had guys who had five stars.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, what was the consumption of ammunition in battle?
T. P. The navigator was "burned out" completely, the gunner-radio operator almost, and often completely, the pilot could not shoot one, but could all. Everything depended on the battle. The radio operator spent part of the ammunition working "on the ground", but did not get carried away. You never know what, suddenly you have to fight off the fighters, but there are no cartridges.
A. S. The shooter deliberately hit the anti-aircraft guns or "what will have to"?
T. P. On "what will have to", so that the enemy would be worse.
A. S. Airplanes shot down by the pilot were marked with stars, and the navigator and the gunner?
T. P. Exactly the same stars. One crew, everything in common.
A. S. Question: Which of the navigators and shooters shot down? - did not arise? As far as I know, in battle, several crews often fire at one attacking fighter
T. P. Never. Honestly. We always knew exactly who shot down. There has never been any friction in resolving this issue.
A. S. And what was the maximum number of downed fighters on the account of the most effective navigators and shooters of your regiment?
T. P. Five.
A. S. What was the climb rate of the Pe-2?
T. P. And the devil only knows. I never asked myself this question. We were quite happy with it then, we climbed to the required height quite easily to the front line.
A. S. The real speed of the Pe-2?
T. P. Cruising with bombs - 360 km / h. On a combat course - 400. Avoidance of the target up to 500. On a dive up to 720.
A. S. Did the Pe-2's maneuverability suit you?
T. P. Great maneuverability! For me - beyond praise. I told you, "stuck my leg" and hop! You are no longer in this place.
A. S. Was it possible to perform aerobatics on the Pe-2? If so, did you use this opportunity in battle?
T. P. It is possible, but prohibited. We had a pilot Banin, once he flew around the plane, accelerated and spun a barrel over the airfield. R-times and the second! He sits down, and immediately stuck him in the guardhouse. And right there the next day, the corps commander flew in, the famous ace Polbin, "galloped" to the regiment and to Banin. We sat and sat, drew and drew, and then Polbin took off and twisted two "barrels" too. "Pawn" easily did these things, but the pilots did not.
A. S. And why? Well, in a tight battle formation it is understandable, there is nowhere to get out of order, but on the "hunt", it seems, just do what you want to do.
T. P. No. In aerobatics with a fighter, it's a losing business in advance, anyway, he practically performs all aerobatics better and faster. The main evasion maneuver from the fighter is an abrupt change of course in altitude and uncoordinated left-right. The "pawn" did these things splendidly - with a throw! Plus the "golden dream" - the shortest course home and, of course, the fire of the navigator and gunner.
A. S. That is, I understood that you did not perform any maneuvers like "scissors" in the ranks?
T. P. No. "Hard" tuning is the key to success. All maneuvers and "throws", only within the framework of the formation.
A. S. M-105PF engine - were you satisfied, its power, reliability? How often did the motors fail and for what reason - wear and tear, maintenance?
T. P. M-105PF is a very reliable engine, there were practically no failures, only damage in battle.
The only thing that happened was the gear teeth, but these were isolated cases. Sometimes the connecting rod also broke off, but this was on a worn out engine and also very rare. There were no such things on the new engines.
The power of the M-105 was, in general, sufficient, but the Pe-2 simply "asked" for an engine under 1700 hp, such as the M-107. With him, the "pawn" would have become an exceptional plane, and with the "hundred and fifth" it would have been "just" cool.
The service of the engines was "at the level".
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, did you fly with M-105A engines?
T. P. No, when I started flying there were already forced ones.
A. S. Did you change the pitch of the screw, was it convenient to control the change in the pitch of the screw, how often did you use the change in the pitch?
T. P. Constantly and frequently used pitch change. Almost every change in flight mode, takeoff, cruise, etc., required a change in pitch. It presented no difficulties and worked reliably.
At first, foolishly, before the dive, they removed the gas, they thought the drawdown would be less, but that was nonsense. Then they threw it, whatever you take away, whatever you don't take away, it is still 720 km / h, the "pawn" is literally hanging on the screws.
A. S. Was there a fast and the furious?
T. P. No.
There were restrictions on the number of revolutions on lightweight propellers - at 2550 revolutions, no more than 3 minutes. In this mode, and so for a long time, the engine worked only on takeoff. Even when we crossed the front line above 2400, we did not raise it. If you do more, then the gain in speed is minimal, and the engines can be “put down” easily.
A. S. Did you like the altitude of the engine?
T. P. Quite. As I said, we did not climb above 4000. As three thousand passed - then the boost was transferred to the 2nd stage and order.
A. S. Were there any interruptions with spare parts? How were the complaints made?
T. P. Since 1943, the material support of the bomber aviation regiments was at the highest level, spare parts were running smoothly, any. From rods to motors. As for the complaints: I don't remember, the cars were assembled efficiently.
Although when I flew to the Kazan plant to receive planes, walked around the shops, I, to be honest, freaked out. There is such a master at the lathe, and there are two drawers under your feet, otherwise the machine will not reach the lathe. Guys, chronically hungry. If a pigeon flew into the workshop, then that's it, the work stopped and the hunt for game began. All the pigeons that flew in fell into the soup, they were knocked down with slingshots. It scratched in my soul, because when we dive, the car already rings. Whom do I trust with my life? Guys. But they collected it with high quality. "Pawn" withstood an overload of up to 12 and nothing, did not fall apart.
Kazan University donated part of the planes to our regiment (Lenin was still a student there). More precisely, the machines were manufactured with funds raised by teachers and students of this university. I had the privilege of flying one of these machines. We, those who flew in these machines and survived (and there are about ten of us left) after the war, met with the teachers of this university in Kazan. I am grateful to these people.
The only thing I remember was that the "techies" once complained that they had not brought in liquids with tetraethyl lead, but since the flights did not stop, apparently they still delivered it.
A. S. So, what did you "interfere" with the liquid yourself?
T. P. I don’t know, it wasn’t my business. I remember there were conversations. I remembered why - the offensive was underway, it was in full swing and we were afraid that we would "land" since there was no gasoline.
A. S. Airplane launch - by air or auto-starter?
T. P. Pe-2 - by air. SB was started by autostarter.
A. S. How much fuel did the Pe-2 have? Have you ever used hanging tanks?
T. P. For about a three-hour flight, this is 1000-1100 km. Suspended tanks have never been used.
A. S. Did you fly with a permanent crew?
T. P. With constant. There you have to understand each other perfectly. Of course, sometimes the composition of the crew changed, for a variety of reasons, from death and injury (which was quite common) to promotion (which was rare), but any change in the composition was only by order. The left crews tried not to break, the left crew was a force.
A. S. Technical personnel: staff, strength, aircraft maintenance conditions?
T. P. Let's list. Let's start with the link. Link Technician - He is responsible for the motors. Link armorer - for the weapon. Then each plane was relied on: a mechanic, two mechanics, a gunsmith and a toolmaker.
A. S. What were the terms of operation of the Pe-2 at the front?
T. P. There are 30 sorties, combat naturally. Then the plane "left" somewhere. In general, they wrote off. They took a new one.
A. S. What was the survivability of enemy fire?
T. P. Very high. I didn’t have so much to be beaten, I was lucky. But sometimes they came, then with holes in the plane, in the holes all - naturally a sieve, then the puck was beaten off, then half of the stabilizer fell off. And the car came and sat down.
Lighting the Pe-2 was not easy. The Pe-2 had protected tanks, the protector tightened well - not every bullet is lethal. Further, the NG (neutral gas) system. The navigator, upon entering the fire zone (and some immediately after takeoff), switches the NG lever and starts sucking the exhaust into the tanks, filling the empty space of the tanks with inert gas.
A. S. Have there been cases of "forced on the belly"? How dangerous is it for a pilot to land and was there a possibility of repair?
T. P. On the belly? They sat down. It is safe enough for the pilot, as far as such a landing can be generally safe. The main thing is not to sit on a burning one, otherwise the tanks will explode upon landing. Repair? Easy. If he sat on a more or less level field, then he was raised and after a few days, you see, he already flies.
A. S. If the planes returned with holes, then how many, from what calibers?
T. P. We are superstitious people, counting holes was considered a bad omen. But I tell you, it was not the plane that came back, but the sieve.
A. S. How do you visually assess the power of the German 20 mm cannons?
T. P. Depending on where it goes. If he came in from a 2/4 angle, then he got into the fuselage, then a hole of 6-7 cm was obtained. It would fall into the plane, then it came out 15-20 cm, a large hole came out, with such turned edges. Apparently due to the fact that the plane is a bearing element, it helped the destruction.
A. S. Have you ever gotten into an emergency?
T. P. I had to. And during the war, twice, and after - once. And after the war, with a burning engine, he was lucky - he did not explode. I am lucky. The connecting rod was cut off. The car was already old, thoroughly worn out. Flew.
I no longer jumped on the "pawn". I was such a "boorish merchant" - I always held out to my own people. They didn't give a damn about knocking me down.
A. S. What kind of field modifications of the aircraft were carried out?
T. P. After finalizing the flashlight reset and installing a large-caliber machine gun to the navigator, the Pe-2 did not need any modifications.
A. S. How were the planes camouflaged in the regiment, what are the sizes of the numbers, were there any emblems?
T. P. They were not camouflaged in any way. The factory paint was fine with us. The Kazan plant painted the upper surface in a protective green color, and the Irkutsk plant in white with green stripes. We called these cars "Irkutsk women". The planes went to us from the Irkutsk plant in winter. The bottom was blue there and there. We did not have camouflage, and I never saw it in other regiments either. The Germans had camouflage.
The rooms were large, blue, in the area of the radio operator's cabin. On the keels of the star. In the cockpit area, on the left, they applied the pilot's emblem, I had a "jumping lion." Someone has a "tiger". Vaska Borisov had an interesting emblem in general - a bomb (lying), on top of it was a bear drinking vodka from his throat. The division commander arrives as follows: "Borisov, well, erase this muck!" - never erased. But generally, emblems were allowed. They drew emblems of technology, there were great masters. The guys said about my lion that "as if alive, he is about to jump off."
After the war, I transferred to the 2nd Regiment of our Guards Corps. There, on the cockpits, instead of the pilot's emblem, there was the regiment's emblem - the Guards sign, with the inscription obliquely - "Vislensky".
The screw cocks were painted in the same protective color.
A. S. Did all planes have their undersurfaces painted blue?
T. P. Yes, everyone.
A. S. How common was aircraft repainting after the factory?
T. P. Never did this nonsense. Thirty sorties were not worth this repainting. I'll tell you so, rarely what car in summer color survived until winter or in winter, until summer.
A. S. Was lime paint applied in winter?
T. P. No.
"After the war": Pilots of the "Vislensky" regiment. Second from the left Punev T. P. (gestures with his hand)
Photo taken in Austria in 1949. Punev has already served in the "Vislensky" regiment, as evidenced by the emblem on the plane.
A. S. Have you, on occasion, attacked enemy bombers? Were there any such incidents at the front, in your regiment?
T. P. I personally did not have to, but there were many such cases both at the front and in our regiment. This was frequent and successful. Chopped them - "be calm!" It’s a pity that I didn’t turn up, I was good at shooting.
A. S. Did German bombers attack ours?
T. P. No, that was not the case. Their cars were much inferior to ours in speed, where can they compete with our "pawn"!
A. S. Why do you think we made fewer combat missions than the Germans?
T. P. Mostly, probably, due to the weak engineering support of the airfields, which made us terribly dependent on the weather. For example, in February 1945 I made only two sorties. The Fritzes flew from the "concrete roads", and we flew from the ground. February is warm, the airfields are limp, there is no way to take off. And we sat like the damned. Although, when the airfields dried up, they could make four sorties a day, and all with a dive. For a dive bomber, this is incredibly high. This is a work of wear and tear.
In winter, again, they could have made one or two sorties in three months, or they could have made more than one. That the airfield is not suitable, because there was nothing to clean the airfields from the snow. No bulldozers, no graders. We cleared the airfield - no weather. The weather has appeared - again there is no airfield. An airfield appeared - the front was gone, it was necessary to catch up, etc.
Although, in the summer, the provision of airfields improved. If they stood still for a long time, then they could lay a narrow-gauge railway for the supply of fuel and ammunition directly to the airfield.
A. S. What was the ratio of combat missions to non-combat missions?
T. P. Now I won't tell you, but there were many non-combatants. Probably three or four times more than combat ones.
First of all, flights. Fly over new and refurbished equipment. Commissioning of a young replenishment. There were many training sorties.
For example. After the Lvov operation there was an operational pause, and we did not fly on missions, but there was no rest. They constantly flew to the regiment on training flights, so as not to lose the skill. A few hundred meters from the airfield, a circle was "poured", either with sand or lime, 10 m in diameter. Hang, you handsome, three bombs, of course, and, please, fly. It was necessary to hit at least one bomb in the circle. Hit - walk, missed - load three more bombs until you hit. Each sortie is three dives, and I tried to do the fourth in some way. The load on the crew on such missions is very large, well, three dives in a row … My shooter stole apples somewhere and fed them to me (our food was satisfying, but not very varied), only that I would be this fourth time did not walk, the guys were very exhausted.
A. S. Have you ever heard of penalty squadrons?
T. P. Only rumors.
A. S. Has it ever happened that you were not credited with a combat sortie if the mission was not completed?
T. P. If "worked" on the target and there is photo control, the departure was always counted.
Did you get it - didn't it? There were very “costly” goals, ie. the number of sorties required for their destruction was incredible - bridges, railway junctions, etc. The Germans covered their "anti-aircraft gun" incredibly. It happens that you bomb and bomb, but you still can't get it. Near and near. This is not a training ground for you.
A. S. Were there any cases of cowardice or special failure to fulfill a combat mission?
T. P. No. That someone had thrown the line, this was not the case.
Small cases, such a slight tremor, it was. Sometimes, we enter the anti-aircraft fire zone, and we had one such "very literate", he rose 50 meters higher than the formation and walked there. I tell him: “Seryoga! Next time you will hit me on the fly! What are you doing?!" While the "anti-aircraft gun" hits it does not matter, what if fighters? They will knock him down first, and our order of battle will be disrupted, which means that the system of firing is a hole in the ranks, try to close it! We were very negative about such tricks and punished ourselves. Well, they gave it in the neck, to put it bluntly.
I had a case when a pilot did not drop a bomb, but this was not a pilot of our regiment.
I had to fly on reconnaissance, however, with bombs. Knot Gorlitz is a large city, and it so happened that I was "loaded" on the departure of the Colonel's wingman from Moscow. They in Moscow thought that since 1945, we are already flying with a cane and in tuxedos, with "butterflies." And not combat sorties with us, and so - flanning, and after all, the Germans beat and blizzard, that anti-aircraft guns, that fighters - "be calm!" Alone, I would have slipped through, but when they told me that I would fly with him, I fidgeted. What kind of pilot he is, I do not know, fought - did not fight - no idea how he would lead himself in the air - it is not known. Well, do I need such a follower? No. In addition, a pair is an inferior and flawed formation for a bomber. Defending with a pair of fighters is incredibly difficult. Better alone.
In general, I am there, they are syudy - I can't get rid of this colonel. And I have no faith in him. Orlov, our excellent pilot, flight commander, walks past. He was just going fishing (the angler was passionate, and there was a river near the airfield). I say: "Give me at least another Orlov, and there, above the goal, we are already a link, three of us, we will figure something out." I really wanted a proven pilot to cover me in the air. In general, I ruined Orlov's whole fishing trip. I not only ruined his fishing, I drove him into a coffin. Eh! …
Results of photocontrol of bombing
And the three of us flew away. And when we approached this goal, they whipped us so! Already on a combat course, aiming is in progress (five kilometers to the target), I see, the "pawn" falls out with a torch and to the ground, as it will! - everything was scattered. “This colonel did not stay in the ranks,” I say to the crew. A dive began, hit the station, and there were four echelons. Even earlier, the intelligence reported that three of them were with soldiers and one was not known with what. Here in this unknown person, I put bombs, and it turned out to be ammunition. He fucked! Shells flew across the city (this was reflected in the photo control). I don't know how many Germans were killed by this explosion, but I think the count is at least hundreds, since these three infantry echelons were, moreover, very close. The node did not function for a week after my impact. This was probably my most effective blow in the entire war.
We go back in pairs. And then the shooter said to me: "And the colonel is following us." "How?! - I think - it means Orlov was shot down! " They fought this! We cross the front line, and the shooter told me again: "And his bomb bays are open." I told him: "It was he who got rid of the target, tell him to close it." As soon as I told him this, the shooter yells: "The bombs fell from him!" I took it on the tablet and put a cross, marked the place and time of the bombing. This was our territory, fortunately only the forest. We arrive at the airfield, I get out and hear that he is already yelling: “The pilots, the guards, your mother so-so-so, have lost the crew! …. " I told him: "Oh, you bastard! Your bombs fell here!" - and I show it on the tablet. He twist and twist, somehow "went out" in the plane and dumped in a quick way. What happened to him next, I do not know.
True, our regiment had such dodgers that they did not fly on combat missions at all. If you don't want to, there will always be a reason. Well, the regiment did not feel any need for them. If you don't know how, fly in a circle, bomb a training ground, train. To send such people into battle will be even more expensive.
A. S. Was there a percentage on the tasks performed?
T. P. No, we didn't have that.
A. S. How do you feel about the movie "Chronicle of a Dive Bomber", how true and reliable is the film in relation to real life?
T. P. I don't remember exactly this film, I remember the general feeling - noodles.
I have always wondered why, as a consultant, it is so necessary a general. Ask those who actually fought.
Of all the films, the most reliable is "Only" old men "go into battle", but there are also some annoying blunders.
A. S. Timofey Panteleevich, now many historians are developing the now rather popular thesis that the Pe-2 was a rather mediocre dive bomber? In your opinion, is this correct?
T. P. Yes?! Which one is better?
A. S. Well … Tu-2
T. P. And who saw him and when did he appear at the front? For example, during my entire stay at the front, I have never seen a Tu-2. Why don't they like the Pe-2?
A. S. Pe-2 is difficult to control. …
T. P. Nonsense! You must be able to fly. I told you…
A. S. … When diving, the internal harness must not be used. …
T. P. So what? A large caliber won't fit into the bomb bay anyway. The dive bomber has an external main suspension. Well this is a dive bomber.
A. S. … The bomb load is small. …
T. P. And how many bombs do you need to hit? One is enough. So I dive into it and hit it - alone.
Even with only two 250 kg, you can destroy a bridge or drown the ship "on the move", and if you get into the train, you don't need to say anything.
Therefore, the Pe-2, carrying one ton of bombs, is more effective than a bomber carrying two tons, but bombing horizontally. And a ton of bombs is not a small load at all.
A. S. … The alignment had to be high, because of the large "drawdown", high - that means the bombs were inaccurate
T. P. Nonsense! The bombs were placed in a 10-meter circle, is that a small accuracy ?! The drawdown is due to the fact that the Pe-2 is a high-speed car. It was possible, of course, to increase the wingspan, and then it would jump out immediately, but then they would lose speed and how then to fight?
A. S. Now it is also quite popular to say that heavy single-engine fighters, such as the FW-190 or P-46 "Thunderbolt", as dive bombers were more effective than twin-engine dive bombers, and in a battle with enemy fighters they could stand up for themselves, not demanded an escort. For stormtroopers could "work". In general, they were versatile
T. P. Right. They used the universal, and we used the one that gives the greatest effect in bombing.
A. S. Do you think the Pe-2 was more effective as a bomber?
T. P. Well, of course! The Pe-2 has double aiming. The navigator leads the first aiming. Directs the car to the calculated drift angle on the combat course, sets the BUR - the combat angle of the sight reversal. If this angle is not taken into account and not set, then when the pilot is aiming (already in a dive), the bomber will blow away and you will not hit the target. In addition, the navigator controls the altitude and gives a reset signal, since the pilot looks through the sight and cannot follow the altimeter.
Here they fly and the navigator "measures the wind." There is such a device - a wind blower, with its help they determine the drift angle, i.e. determine the direction, wind speed and at what angle the aircraft should be turned on the combat course so that it will not be carried away (the pilot does something similar when landing, where the plane is also turned in the direction of the wind). Taking into account a certain drift angle, the pilot turns the collimator of his sight before diving. Therefore, when a pilot on a dive carries out a second aiming through his sight, he will not be mistaken because of the drift, since by aiming the navigator and turning the optical axis of the pilot's sight, the drift of the vehicle has already been compensated.
You can hang as many bombs as you like on a fighter (this is not a tricky business), but it will not be possible to achieve the drop accuracy on a dive, since the fighter pilot cannot determine the drift angle on the combat course.
Anyone who does not know these subtleties thinks that to hit with a bomb in a dive, the pilot only needs to catch the target in the sight, and then it will go on by itself. It won't go anywhere! Even if you do catch it, you won't get anywhere without taking into account the drift angle and the exact drop height. Even if you manage to withstand the drop height (for example, install an automatic drop), then you will not get away from the error in determining the drift angle. And an error in determining the drift angle of 1 (one) degree already gives a deviation of the hit from the aiming point of 40-50 meters, and you will be mistaken for a much larger angle.
You can, of course, try to compensate for errors in drift, low drop height and low speed, as in the German Ju-87. I do not argue, the "bastard" "dive bomber" is magnificent, but this is yesterday. Slow and lightly armed. So we got plenty of anti-aircraft guns, and that's it, the Junkers ended. I flew for a long time, but as the dive bomber ended, it stopped hitting, since the drop height had to be increased. And now we have more fighters, stopped appearing in the sky altogether, so old for our fighter - one tooth.
They are now, in their memoirs, all snipers, but if he tried to tell me how he got into the turret of a tank in a Junkers, I would only ask him one question: “How do you take into account the demolition?” - and that would be the end of it.
As for the FW-190, it’s the same story, you don’t take into account the demolition, and the Fokker is twice as fast as the Junkers. I saw these "Fokkers" - bombs would be thrown anyhow and "For the Motherland!" into the clouds, from our fighters.
You must understand that the Pe-2 was rightfully the main front-line bomber of our Air Force. By right, and not because there was nothing else.
During the war, both the Germans and the Allies had bombers faster than the Pe-2. There were also those who carried a heavy bomb load. They were with stronger onboard armament. Finally, there were more comfortable ones for the crew. (The same "Boston" - a plane for the crew, a very comfortable car, we have a lot of guys who flew on it, they said.) There were.
But, no Air Force had a bomber like the Pe-2, which would have so successfully combined all parameters: high speed, good bomb load, excellent maneuverability, simplicity and ease of control, strong defensive armament and, most importantly, the ability to throw dive bombs. In any case, I have not heard of foreign analogues, equal in performance characteristics and efficiency of the Pe-2.
And the one who says that the Pe-2 was a bad dive bomber did not bomb on it himself, nor does he know a damn thing about bombing. Perhaps he can also deceive the "reading" public, but a professional will immediately put him in his place.
