In the past few weeks, there has been seething on the Internet about possible purchases of armored vehicles by the RF Ministry of Defense abroad. There are many controversies, discussions, arguments for and against. A lot of hats were thrown on, spears were broken and checkers were blunt in dashing "horse attacks". We are absolutely not specialists, we dug into the forms and collected in one place a rather detailed and versatile discussion of this story. Let everyone judge independently about the necessity and reasons for possible contracts.
And although this material is not directly an analysis of the "work" of any onoliteg, it nevertheless will help the reader to better navigate this confusing story and the intricacies of the interests concerned. The experts in this topic were BlackShark and comrades from the Military branch of the Adventure (materials from other respected forums were also used on the Adventure). The material itself is presented as a kind of dialogue or discussion, if necessary - write, we will recompose.
Al72
“The Tiger, as it were, is not quite a Russian car. In terms of components. The Cummins B205 engine alone, an American one, already deprives it of the right to be a real army car. The Tiger was made as an export car, according to the requirements of the UAE. the share of imported components in it is obscenely high. I suspect that with the Italians we will be able to achieve a much greater degree of localization."
Please comment.
Djoker
What is there in the "Tiger" imported, except for the engine..? In addition, there is a "Tiger" with a domestic YMZ-530 engine … There is a "Wolf" …
And the LMV was going to be assembled under a license … Ie. spare parts from Italy, and assembly at KAMAZ (most of the money will go to Italy) …
Here's what they write about this on WiF:
This is the decision of Serdyukov personally, who was promoted by someone about the LMV last year, about their "security". As I understand it, everything that followed - pushing KAMAZ in advance with the purchase of two cars, testing in Bronnitsy, etc. - was already adjusting nimble people to the actually adopted "highest" decision.
The tests themselves in Bronnitsy actually boiled down to driving performance tests, where the LMV showed no advantages over the "Tiger" (but rather, lost to it). Therefore, the conclusions about the test results were contradictory. The defense in Bronnitsy was not tested in any way in any way, so all conclusions on this score, which were later passed on to Serdyukov, were based, as I understand it, mainly on information from the firm itself and purely rough domestic assessments.
However, and so it is obvious that, in general, the security of IVECO (especially mine), due to the design features, must certainly be higher than that of the "Tiger". The problem here, IMHO, is not in the choice of LMV as such, but in the decision to immediately buy large quantities of them for import, instead of urgently sawing and creating a copy (or sawing the "Tiger" in the same direction). Instead of following the Chinese path, they break the comedy "to be like in Europe".
The whole story is sad in that respect (as in the case of Mistral), that it demonstrates the disorganization and partly chaotization of the current Russian procurement system and acute problems at the interface between the Defense Ministry and the defense industry, which are only getting worse now.
Regards, Exeter
basilevs
What is there in the "Tiger" imported, except for the engine..? In addition, there is a "Tiger" with a domestic YMZ-530 engine … There is a "Wolf" …
The gearbox is still imported there. Even tires used to be imported, Michelin X. Now I don't know - I hope they have already mastered their production.
They wanted to attach a domestic engine to it back in 2002. Only then it was GAZ-562. But for some reason it didn’t happen.
There is no "wolf" yet. There are prototypes, experimental samples. There is no serial car yet.
And the LMV was going to be assembled under a license … Ie. spare parts from Italy, and assembly at KAMAZ (most of the money will go to Italy) …
They promise to bring localization up to 80%. It will be interesting to see.
Ferro
Nobody cut the order for Tigers to Arzamas, the guys rivet them as much as they can.
They have not been collected at GAZ for a long time, more at the time of Barantsev (so that the devils eat him!)
PAMS / TSAMS / ZAMS - killed in fact.
And the fact that there is a purchase of foreign equipment should rather be perceived as
the need to urgently get hold of this technique, that is, as preparation for various
kind of trouble. This also applies to the Mistrals and is even more relevant.
This time.
Two - assembly in Russia.
Three - the level of production localization. Although he is unknown, according to the experience of the civilian automotive industry, they will bend over.
Four and beyond - technology, jobs, production experience, production capacity …"
BlackShark
I would like to note that for "Iveco" there is a mounted armored set that can hold up to 14.5mm, however, then it becomes less mobile. Those. if the "Wolf" still has a chance to get such protection, then the "Tiger" has nothing to catch here. Those. this is, in general, a very good device. However, no one says anything bad about the "Wolf" yet (since the tests are far from over).
In general, acceptance for supply is far from everything. There is also adoption. And cars of the "Vodnik" type are also on supply. And what? But journalists do not know these subtleties. And they burn tons of napalm, they already smoke the whole capital …
And one more thing - the vehicle of the ALL tests ("Iveco") also has not passed yet, and will not appear in service without it. Even taking into account the clearly political overtones (it is necessary to strengthen the alliance with "nodal" Europe and tear them away from both the USA and the half-witted Young Europeans who bet on a lame American horse, with them, coupled with the "hydrocarbon bomb" and cooperation in the purchase of technologies, it is more reliable to tie it up).
Note that on the "Wolves" with the "Bears" also did not give up. True, all this can lead to some kind of disunification, from which everyone is trying to get away, but does not come out in any way. However, when we made 6 types of tanks a year and are in service with 3 tanks in a couple of dozen modifications, and there is still a DH - what to get used to?
Al72
Well … Actually, I was interested in the availability of imported components. As a car enthusiast, I understand that if the engine and gearbox are imported, then damn it is not a "Russian" car. Those. Summing up the intermediate result, we can say that there is a normal competition between almost equivalent projects using all means, as in the whole world. There is a hope that the customer will be the winner.
Well, again, judging by the latest rumors and decisions, by a significant increase in the procurement budget, we can say that the equipment is urgently needed and needs to be in time … And lastly, if the American components were purchased, then any option to get off their needle should be welcomed, otherwise go guess in which axis they will include us again and they will impose an embargo. Yes, and the "Cavalier" deserved a little nishtyakov from us, in vain that he walked around Europe in a jacket with our coat of arms
cromeshnic
A few selected quotes on the subject:
The chaos also lies in the fact that the manufacturers of the "Tiger" asked for modern armor, providing the 6th class of protection, from "RusSpetsStal" - the structure … "Rostekhnollogiy" !!! Before the MVSV-2010 exhibition, Mr. Chemezov himself said that they could not yet provide the armor with the required parameters, but "they are working on it." So we have "finalized" …
according to some dirty rumors, the fact that Serdyukov could not cope with the "Tiger" due to the tightness of the control (and it seems like he could not even slow down) played, while on Iveka he rolled with a breeze. So the undoubted fault of AMZ and GAZ is here, they could have done a VIP option for the minister:)
But the story doesn't end there. From unofficial sources, it was possible to find out that in the winter in Bronnitsy near Moscow, comparative tests for cross-country ability were organized: an army truck Ural, Hummer, IVECO LMV and Tigr drove onto a half-meter snowy virgin land. And what? The Urals drove slowly but surely (it “rowed” the snow with bridges). The tiger galloped ahead dashingly, not even thinking of getting stuck. The Hummer immediately got up shamefully. And the LMV barely moved forward, shoveling the snow with a shaft in front of itself - and in the end, with difficulty, got on the track punched by the Urals. The car behaved even worse when driving on virgin soil on the "inserts" in the wheels, allowing you to move with flat tires: the Tiger left, but the LMV stayed. It didn't work out of the Italian Lynx Snow Leopard!
What about reliability and maintainability? After all, an Ivek engine with common rail injection and electronic control requires competent maintenance and excellent fuel! By the way, according to Russian experts, the LMV engine compartment is configured in such a way that it is impossible to install a more powerful diesel engine there, but the main problem lies elsewhere. The Russian analogue of the LMV, the Tiger of Arzamas production, costs 3.5 million rubles, or 90 thousand euros, and the bulk of this money remains in the country, with the exception of payments for the imported engine. And one IVECO LMV will cost at least 300 thousand euros, which, despite the KAMAZ assembly, will almost completely go abroad. Do you feel the difference? At the same time, again according to our information, IVECO does not sell its armored vehicles, but leases them, presenting very tough conditions to customers. They wrote that Rostekhnollogiya sabotaged the creation of a domestic engine for the Tiger in every possible way. The coolest thing is that now the Yaroslavl YaMZ-530, which should be installed on the Tiger, is already expected … on IVECO!
They wrote that Rostekhnollogii sabotaged the creation of a domestic engine for the Tiger in every possible way. The coolest thing is that now the Yaroslavl YaMZ-530, which should be installed on the Tiger, is expected already … on IVECO!
BlackShark
By the way, here is an interesting opinion about IVECO LMV from VIF….
Of course, you can take an example … for example from India - to arrange tenders, competitions, stretch these events for years (if not decades), postpone and cancel.
At the same time, without all this fuss (as experience shows - corruption), it is quite clear that today the LMV is the most secure, sophisticated and reliable armored vehicle of the three above.
The formation of the first light brigades on armored vehicles is planned by the Ministry of Defense for this year. the car is needed today, not tomorrow / the day after tomorrow.
Be that as it may in any case, both the LMV and "Tiger" are temporary options. In a few years they will be replaced by a promising machine, hopefully based on the "Wolf".
cromeshnic, you write
A few selected quotes on the subject: …
The chaos also lies in the fact that the manufacturers of the "Tiger" asked for modern armor, providing the 6th class of protection, from "RusSpetsStal" - the structure … "Rostekhnollogiy" !!! Before the MVSV-2010 exhibition, Mr. Chemezov himself said that they could not yet provide the armor with the required parameters, but "they are working on it." So we have "finalized"..
"Tiger" will not pull this armor in terms of carrying capacity, that's what a thing. "Wolf" - yes. The "wolf" can also pull ceramics, which will cover it at 6A and higher. But "Wolf" still needs a few years before the series.
according to some dirty rumors, the fact that Serdyukov could not cope with the "Tiger" due to the tightness of the control (and it seems like he could not even slow down) played, while on Iveka he rolled with a breeze. So the undoubted fault of AMZ and GAZ is here, they could have done a VIP option for the minister:)
This is not the original reason. Although there was such an episode, it was somewhat embellished. Initially - generally high international politics, then the urgent need for troops, and only then - personal preferences and inconvenience of management. And someone's interests there (I will not comment).
But the story doesn't end there. From unofficial sources, it was possible to find out that in the winter in the Moscow region of Bronnitsy, comparative tests for cross-country ability were organized: an army truck Ural, Hummer, IVECO LMV and Tiger drove onto a half-meter snowy virgin land …
And the "Tiger" does not float, for example, but was shoved into the reconnaissance battalion. Usage question. And the question of WHY you need a car and what is more important - protection or patency. And what theater of operations will the light brigades have, where they will go (if they do), along with the rest of the equipment.
What about reliability and maintainability? After all, an Ivek engine with common rail injection and electronic control requires competent maintenance and excellent fuel! By the way, according to Russian experts, the LMV engine compartment is arranged like this …
"Tiger" is no longer worth 90K, but more … And, by the way, its engine is also not primitive. Neither Cummins nor YaMZ
They wrote that Rostekhnollogii sabotaged the creation of a domestic engine for the Tiger in every possible way. The coolest thing is that now the Yaroslavl YaMZ-530, which should be installed on the Tiger, is expected already … on IVECO!
So can another engine be installed on IVECO or not? You will decide on the citation.
cromeshnic
BlackShark, you write:
"Tiger" will not pull this armor in terms of carrying capacity …
Omonovsky easily pulls the 5th grade. On Tiger-M they promised the 6th grade - I don't know how much his agility has fallen, but I think not lower than that of the LMV, which was closed from KPVT. The wolf in the protected version by default holds the B-32, the tsimes is that it is covered from DShK and KPVT like LMV. Personally, I have no doubt about it. As for the series - Duc give AMZ 30 billion, he will provide you with thousands of Volkov in the same three years.
This is not the original reason. Although such an episode was …
Interests sidekick Serdyukov associated with Kamaz? For example, Medvedev famously rode the Tiger, Putin also seemed to like the Wolf …
And the "Tiger" does not float, for example, but was shoved into the reconnaissance battles …
Well, so now almost no one in the world swims … Even "Vodnik".
The question of application, etc. - can it be better to understand at first, and then to buy the equipment? And then there is SPM-3 to choose from …
"Tiger" is no longer worth 90K, but more …
LMV will cost all 425 thousand euros, or 17 million rubles … Interestingly, for such a loot (30 billion) you can make a wunderwaffe out of the "Wolf"?
So can another engine be installed on IVECO or not? You will decide on the citation.
Well, you yourself are in favor of "full localization" (even 80% is a big question). It looks like they are going to stick a YaMZhny diesel engine - which was made under the Tigr-M and the Wolf - which was sabotaged by Chemezov himself - due to the absence of which the Tiger was not so fully put into service with the army.
Well, after all, no one compared the Tiger and the LMV with full-fledged mileage, shelling, detonation. It would have got into the press. So far, there is only an episode on the virgin snow, which LMV failed. And these are Tigers, not Tigers-M with increased performance characteristics with domestic components, not Wolves with similar characteristics. And why, by the way, does the domestic engine and improved protection only now go to the Tiger-M? Oh, it was Chemezov who built all sorts of intrigues, blocked the engine, then the armor … And where is honesty?
BlackShark
cromeshnic, you write:
Omonovsky easily pulls the 5th grade
And mine resistance is at zero. And between the 5th class of GOST and STANAG-4569 Level III there is "some" difference, is not it? In mine resistance, and bullets too. This is practically our 6th grade.
By the way, the "Tiger" with the 5th class weighs more than LMV, but carries less load. So what? Well, we've already discussed all this.
On Tiger-M they promised the 6th grade - I don't know how much his agility has fallen, but I think not lower than that of the LMV, which was closed from KPVT.
I don’t believe in defense against KPVT at all, these are promises, most likely. A painfully serious thing is the 14.5x114mm cartridge. At 12.7mm - I can believe it. But you can't get it on the "Tiger". M or not M. Will you argue?
A wolf in a protected version by default holds a B-32 …
And I - I doubt that 14.5mm and it will hold. You yourself first somewhere compare the BP of one and the other cartridge.
12.7mm - can. But only WHILE "Wolf" is an experimental car.
As for the series - Duc give AMZ 30 billion, he will provide you with thousands of Volkov in the same three years.
Will not provide. If only because by then only the tests will end. And then please. Will pass the test -I only "for".
Interests sidekick Serdyukov associated with Kamaz? For example, Medvedev …
And someone said that the "Wolf" will not be produced? Or is the production of "Tiger" stopped?
Well, so now almost no one in the world swims … Even "Vodnik".
"Vodnik" sailed. But bad. But that was not his problem. By the way, the airborne version of "Shot" is floating. But what does he look like!
In general, it’s very bad that it doesn’t swim.
Although, if you use it in the southern theater of operations - then do not care. Most likely, they are aiming there.
LMV will cost all 425 thousand euros, or 17 million rubles … Interestingly, for such a loot (30 billion) you can make a wunderwaffe out of the "Wolf"?
I still believe that someone will have enough to drive their finger across the ceiling, the prices for "Iveco" and everything else are not there. And the figures from the GPV - too. Real. For the reasons I have voiced (in the next thread) about "concepts", "Russian chanson" and so on.
Nowadays there is only soot from peat fires on the ceiling
Well, you yourself are in favor of "full localization" (even 80% is a big question).
Right. The higher the degree and the faster, the better. So in everything. By the way, why is 80% in question? Is the cart more complicated, for example, than thermal imagers? Well, the question is only in the TERMS of localization.
It looks like they are going to stick a YaMZshny diesel engine - which was made for the Tiger-M and the Wolf …
Yes, not because of the engine, in general, he did not hit. And because of the change of views in Russia and abroad on such machines, what they should be able to do and what to keep. And so far no one has covered them. Can you imagine the needs of the aircraft in this class of vehicles? Is it really enough 700, 1000, but at least 1500 pieces ?!
Well, after all, no one compared Tiger and LMV with full-fledged mileage …
Well, no one has yet adopted the Iveco into service.
And these are Tigers, not Tigers-M with increased performance characteristics with domestic components
Where is this "Tiger-M"?
no Wolves with similar characteristics. And why by the way …
Oh, what a bad Chemezov. And there was no crisis in the yard? Or not? And there are no problems with development? Nothing? How easy it is to find someone to blame … "A tangible enemy is better than an invisible one - you can spit into his portrait" (c) I don't remember who
STi
But "Wolf" still needs a few years before the series.
By the way, why did it take so long? This is not a fighter or a bomber or a nuclear submarine, what prevents you from setting up prototypes and driving them everywhere in a year? If you need a car "yesterday", then you need to work for this, and not weave intrigues with IVEC purchases. I think it would be quite possible to cope, but it turns out that they pull the cat by the … tail. We would sit on the "Tigers" for now, and then the "Wolf" or its subsequent modification would arrive in time, and during the tests it would be possible to prepare and modernize the facilities for mass production.
I do not understand everything that is happening now.
I am not against buying IVEC, but now it all looks like just lobbying someone else's car industry, they would do everything according to their mind and there would be no questions.
The production itself, I suppose, if you do decide to buy, will be deployed for a year and a half.
BlackShark
It won't work in a year. First, factory tests, then state tests. Then in the troops it is necessary. There is no way for a year. And even two.
By the way, IVECO expects this too, if that …
Well, I said - there is a whole fusion of interests, from interstate, to army needs and someone's personal.
I also do not understand why jeeps are desperately needed.
Not that badly. But they are needed. Local wars are not decreasing and they will be enough for our age (well, if they are). And it is better to get blown up not in a UAZ, on which we drove from LDPE to a neighboring battalion, but in an Iveco or Wolf with a Medved. Yes, and get under fire too. Although under fire - and on the "Tiger" it is possible, but worse. But better than on an armored UAZ.
Just count how many people died in Chechnya in such situations. Atleast approximately.
Have our army at least just armored (which nevertheless appeared in the troops in a decent amount, not even 20 years after Afgan, when they were needed) vehicles, but mine-protected vehicles are better (although you need to understand that this is not a panacea even once, all the matter is in the mass of explosives, it is possible to send a tank to the moon, if necessary …) - there would be fewer victims.
Well, the formation of lightweight mobile parts became necessary. The army has shrunk, the requirements for the mobility of troops are growing, etc. All this has already been chewed 5 times.
Yes, new vehicles are also needed for reconnaissance.
By the way, that's something, and claims about the presence of an engine with Common Rail on the LMV are the funniest of all. And what about the YaMZ-530 / 53x? And at the Brazilian Cummins? And on a whole series of promising domestic diesel engines (created, including in partnership with foreign companies from Germany, Austria, Italy, France)?
Nothing, no one complained about the brittleness of the "Tiger", it seems.
Scary Cubanoid
I also do not understand why jeeps are desperately needed.
Comrades !!!
Kamrad BSh has already stated in OPEN text several times that light brigades (and thousands of units of equipment for them) are needed today. Almost opened the veil of secrecy. Well, for some reason, the General Staff is confident in the need for such brigades and such equipment in the amount of "many" dates "yesterday." It is very possible that there will be brigades on IVEKs and brigades on Tigers and Wolves. And maybe mixed. I don't see any problems with this, especially if they have the same engine and gearbox.
Those. The General Staff, knowing the production capabilities of our factories, is quite likely to quickly (by delivering three machines at once) to staff the maximum number of such brigades. (Or maybe storage bases for quick mobilization of "partisans").
Where will several light brigades be used tomorrow? Yes, at least to pacify Kyrgyzstan, at least to track down the OUN / UPA bandit formations in the Carpathian mountains … Yes, even to pick out sign-quality dugouts! You never know what military analysts numbered there?
For any of these tasks, light brigades are much more needed than medium and heavy ones. I'm not saying that their use will save the equipment and personnel of medium and heavy brigades (which are many times more expensive both in terms of price / resources and in terms of training) for conflicts of a more different level. Well, or at least so that their retained number would force the "probable friends" to refrain from starting such a conflict.
(But it is so tempting to "dry up" the Russian army in a series of small conflicts by forcing to spray, in direct and figurative sense, forces and means)
Yes, there is also a political moment (often much more important than the well-being of even a native, but one plant), when you need to give a carrot to a future ally. And if you remember what they have been writing about on this resource for the last 3 years, then it is immediately clear that different ways of "not washing - by rolling" of acquiring foreign technologies also take place. Remember the episode with the attempt to buy an Opel. Think again why he surrendered to Sberbank? What do bankers know about mechanical engineering?
And most importantly (in my opinion): we have American / European tugriks - like a makhorka fool. This is one of the ways (like the Mistrals) to spend them not on sneakers and ass-warmers, but on worthwhile things. As soon as possible.
And most likely all these arguments take place at the same time. Zaitsev, at the state level, are killed by sprinkling with chalk the entire sector!
and mine-protected is better (although you have to understand that this is not a panacea even once, it's all about the mass of explosives, you can send a tank to the moon, if necessary …) - there would be fewer victims.
The massive nature of machines with high mine protection will force all bearded graduate students of the madrasah to organize much more serious "bookmarks" on the roads, which will require more time, effort and resources (including explosives) for each "bookmark".
All other things being equal, this will significantly reduce the total number of "bookmarks", which means it will reduce our losses. Incl. indirectly becausemore time for the enemy's sapper work increases the likelihood of detection even during the work, and a larger volume of various materials buried in the ground will make it more likely to detect the "bookmark" of engineering reconnaissance. And the organization of a serious charge "from scrap materials" requires a much more different qualification.
sapper tank
The massive nature of machines with high mine protection will force all bearded graduate students of the madrasah
Well, to jerk a box of explosives on the road does not take much mind. I have written about this here many times. just put the PTM on the lining of the box and that's it! But to dig and mask, yes, you need to try differently.
Scary Cubanoid
True, he portrayed Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya and ignored why they needed it. I asked the question three times. Since you and the BSH set out to "pull a condom on the globe of Ukraine" (quote from BSH), then explain why it is suddenly so urgent. It's not even funny about Kyrgyzstan and the UPA. For Kyrgyzstan, the Airborne Forces will be enough for the eyes. And if not enough, then already "heavy" brigades will only help. For chasing through the forests of the UPA brigades on IVEKH … Well, that's all there is to the General Staff. Explain why the ass to tear "as quickly as possible to staff the maximum number of brigades." At the same time, as many as three different types of machines. Yeah, wait dviglo and the box are the same … You are an optimist, nemeryanny. Well, what is the gain in time IVECO in front of the Wolf? If IVECO also go through the entire test cycle. While the assembly is being adjusted, then the factory ones, etc. Why BSh wrote here. Well, okay, let's skip the factory ones and get the difference for a maximum of a year. Well, is there a sombrero on HUA HUAN? Like a fool of a makhorka, are you? And they cut money for education. So maybe education is better funded? In Novosibirsk, 2 billion is not enough for education. And you finally have heaps of this shoe polish.
I wrote about the Krigiz OUN from the bulldozer. Explaining that it is not known what the analysts in the headquarters predicted. But, as everyone remembers well, even on August 7, 2008, very few people believed that Georgians were suicides. And our Armed Forces began deployment at least six months in advance.
The continuation of the debate about possible scenarios without an array of initial data is purely like guessing on coffee grounds.
Further: Ivecs are at least 3 years old for state tests and production launch. Wolves and Tigram-M - about the same. The whole tsimus is that IVECO will want to do, if I am not mistaken, KAMAZ, Volkov - GAZ, and Tigrov - Arzamas. I have no doubt for a second that all three factories chose / designed machines with an eye to their production capabilities (equipment, specialists, suppliers). Accordingly, forcing GAZ and KAMAZ to release Tigers is guaranteed to have problems until they debug the entire chain for Tigers. The same is true for the Wolf and IVECO.
About the YaMZ engine it seems today more than once they wrote that it climbs into the Tiger and the Wolf and, it seems, into IVECO. And even more so in light of 80% localization …
That. if we want all 3 factories to produce a quality product as soon as possible, we will have to put up with 3 machines. On the one hand, we are no stranger to disunification, and on the other, out of 3, in the end, the strongest and best will survive. There will be plenty to choose from according to the experience of MASS exploitation, which is not at all equal to testing.
About education - is this the cry of a liberal soul? Or is it your inner Balls demanding "take and divide"?
Spending gold reserves is not a tricky business. As it is now customary to say "gov … oh question!"
We did not finish the Academies. But Ch1 and Ch2, and before them Afghan, clearly showed that escorting the columns with tanks is firing cannons at sparrows. And with regular losses of expensive guns. (I already wrote that during Ch1 I kept records of faulty armored vehicles in the North Caucasus Military District and the OGV in the Chechen Republic)
You can drive for cartridges / vodka either on a tank or on a UAZ. (we have already written about this today). For modern intelligence requirements, the existing armor is also not suitable.
I repeat once again an important (albeit cynical) thesis: we cannot afford to lose expensive tanks and infantry fighting vehicles in various "clean-up operations" there.
Ravil
I dealt with "Tiger".
His cross-country ability is just very decent. And in the mountains and shit.
But there are fatal flaws that put an end to it, like on a combat vehicle.
I list them according to the degree of fatality:
The engine is not armored. Generally. None of the versions I've seen with different booking options. The radiator is slightly covered. And from the sides, the engine can be stopped with one burst of 5, 45
Open machine gun turret. The machine gunner is naked to the waist. It is removed by the first bullet and gets stuck in the hatch, blocking access to the machine gun (AGS). The vehicle becomes unarmed.
The engine dies from military diesel fuel after 2-3 refueling. (the thesis about putting things in order and ensuring the quality of solarium in a war, I sweep it aside as an unscientific fantasy)
In addition, for a light reconnaissance vehicle in our realities, the ability to swim is mandatory.
Conclusion: when fixing the first and third problems, "Tiger" will be quite good as a base for light hardware.
I don’t understand what an asshole, wrote "Tigers" in the staff of the reconnaissance battalions of motorized rifle brigades. BRDM-2M for these purposes surpasses it in all respects. And in terms of armament and security and cross-country ability.
I can't imagine anything but banal lobbying and drinking
Scary Cubanoid
Just any home plant should be more important than the rest of the world put together, because it is native and it brings money to the country. And we do not need allies, we need those who can be used in our interests. Fed up with "allies" during the Soviet era. They will not honestly give us technology, they will either try to take huge amounts of money for them, not comparable to the goods, or tie us to themselves.
And precisely because we have these tugriks … poy chew, for example, at the Department of Radiophysics, equipment of the 60-70s and employees receive salaries as couriers, right? Or is this why we have such auctions for GPV? Or maybe that's why they place their bets not on the purchase of new aircraft, but on the modernization of old ones, and MiG and Su aircraft factories produce ~ 60% of everything for export?
On the rest of the points, I have already answered similar questions.
Do you seriously think that, say, the fate of GAZ is more important for us than relations with France? Are you serious?
For example, Hitler's Germany in 1941 puts forward a condition: buy trucks from us (that is, shut off the oxygen to GAZ) and make friends boom! Even if it postponed the war for several months - to hell with him with GAZ !!! By the way, it is a very realistic scenario in the current realities of the political lobby.
The tugriks in the gold reserves are precisely the tugriks. Not rubles. If you, after reading the GA for a long time, have not yet understood why they cannot be spent within the country, I am not surprised by your funny salary at the institute.
But, even at a simple, homely, level: spend - g … but the question! Spending with maximum efficiency is much more difficult!
BlackShark
Well, to jerk a box of explosives on the road does not take much mind. I have written about this here many times. just put the PTM on the lining of the box and that's it! But to dig and mask, yes, you need to try differently.
You also need to have this very TNT in quantities like "like a fool of candy wrappers" … and take it on donkeys or there even as to the place of the bookmark. And what the dushmans, "Czechs" could do in their current state, for example, are no longer within their power. Mina somehow still, but to throw boxes of even homemade ammonal….
Which is already a plus if the enemy is forced to do this.
This is the kind of discussion that happened.
A lot of letters, but in detail and from various aspects.
