Well, what are your impressions?
- I remember the huge efforts on the control stick - my hands ached out of habit, especially when I was full of fuel. Extremely gluttonous pepelats. Awkward at medium altitudes. When it accelerates in the stratosphere to 1.8M - it comes to life. Landing is better than anyone I have ever flown, only you have to adapt to the speed. In general, a sturdy 4th generation aircraft.
Could you fight on it?
- As a long-range high-altitude interceptor. Easy.
And go to the MiG-31 against the Raptor?
- Pure suicide.
It is logical. Too different planes for different tasks …
- Quite the opposite - they have the same task: "sweep" the enemy aircraft from the skies, cover a group of aircraft or airspace in a given square. They are all purebred Slayers. Air superiority aircraft. No one forbids the Raptor pilot to shoot at the MiG-31, and the MiG to shoot down the Raptor or any other enemy aircraft. Another thing is that the Iglam and the Raptors are up to any task of the Fighter, while the highly specialized 31st is not able to repeat much of what the Raptor or the same domestic Su-27 can do …
“You're just an incorrigible pessimist. The combination of speed and altitude characteristics of the MiG-31 is unique, and today they have no analogues among modern fighters
- Speed … The fact that the 31st can accelerate to 3000 km / h does not give him absolutely any advantages in a fight with the Raptor or the F-15C. There are completely different factors.
Do you doubt the capabilities of the Zaslon radar station?
- You see, what a trick here: dogfight is not a knightly tournament. We stood in the corners, waved their spears, rushed towards each other … No! Real dogfight is a group skirmish. I will not be alone, but there will probably be several groups on the other side too - fighter squads, strike vehicles, AWACS … Tell me, what does my "Zaslon" mean against the 9-meter Sentry radar? He has 15-20 operators and liaison officers on board, but how much does my only navigator-operator in the rear cockpit “operate”?
On board the upgraded A-50U long-range radar detection and control aircraft (AWACS)
You are a pessimist, definitely. After all, you are not alone in battle - the Russian Air Force is armed with similar long-range radar detection aircraft A-50, and by 2016 they promise the A-100 "Premier" with an active phased array
- Yes. But then what is the point of the MiG-31 with its super-radar?
Well, how … you see more, you know more, you will be able to detect the enemy earlier
- What does it matter when there is an AWACS aircraft nearby?
Imagine that communication with the A-50 was interrupted … interference, software failure on board, or something like that. And you - once! and its own powerful radar, sees targets for 300 km
- If there is no AWACS nearby, and the enemy has one, we are guaranteed the end. "Barrier" is not a panacea here. Consider the difference in the power and sensitivity of the radar (take another look at the MiG and A-50), the many times greater possibilities for classifying and selecting targets and pointing other fighters at them, finally, AWACS has an all-aspect view and azimuth tracking, unlike the radar "Barrier", which sees targets in the 90 ° sector (approx. The entire field of view is 160 °. The viewing angle is 90 ° +/- HEADLIGHT deflection by 35 ° in each direction). The escort sector is still 70 °.
Listen, I have seen such numbers on the Internet. The modernized MiG-31BM, equipped with a radar similar in its capabilities to the Zaslon-M radar (created in the 1980s, the Zaslon-M did not go into series), is capable of detecting a target with an EPR of 19 sq. meters at a distance of 320 km. Cool?! By the way, what is a target with an RCS of 19 square meters?
- Attack aircraft A-10 "Thunderbolt". Much depends on the angle and the presence of weapons on the external sling.
Effective scattering area (ESR) - determines the properties of an object to scatter an electromagnetic wave. Depends on the size and configuration of the target, the properties of its material, the length and polarization of the radar wave, and the direction of irradiation. An increased RCS value means a greater radar visibility of the object, a decrease in RCS makes detection difficult.
It turns out that the 31st has a huge advantage - it is not only capable of detecting targets at a distance of three hundred kilometers, but also attacking them with R-37 missiles. No one else in the world has anything like it
MiG-31 with the nose cone removed at a foreign air show.
The audience was quite surprised by the Zaslon radar with a phased antenna array.
- If we omit the topic of the presence of the R-37 and the experience of their use in combat units, then we get something like the following: when irradiated from the front hemisphere, the MiG-31 has an RCS within 20 … 25 square meters. meters. The F-15C with suspended missiles has an RCS within 10 sq. meters. Even taking into account a certain advantage of the "Barrier" over the foreign radars AN / APG-63 (V) 1, 2, 3 - who will be able to detect the enemy earlier?
Why does the 31st have such a huge EPR? I heard that the aircraft of the Su-27 family have a minimum RCS within 5 sq. meters, on new modifications of the Su-30 and Su-35 it is reduced to 4 sq. meters
- Firstly, the MiG-31 glider itself - there 25% of the lift is provided only by the shape of the fuselage. Huge air intakes, engine compressors. Can you imagine how all this "glows" when irradiated from the front? Again, aerodynamic ridges, a retractable fuel rod, pylons, rockets on an external sling - not to mention the 4-meter P-37 "logs" weighing 600 kg. Finally, the build quality and fit of the lantern and trim parts - in the years when the 31st was created, it seemed insignificant.
Incredible. 5 times difference compared to "dryers"
- Do not forget that the figures that you gave for the Su-27 relate to its minimum RCS - without suspensions, when irradiated strictly from the front. With clusters of missiles under the wing and at a 3/4 angle, the RCS values of the Su-27, Su-35 and F-15C may well grow to 15 sq. meters - this figure appears in the calculations of the domestic Air Force. In any case, it is much lower than the 31st.
Su-35
You mean, MiG-31 and F-15C will notice each other at the same distance?
- Exactly. And it's not a fact that the 31st will be able to take advantage of the R-37 super-missiles.
What about other foreign fighters?
- In the case of the compact F-16, everything is much more complicated - the value of its minimum RCS is estimated at 3 sq. meters. Even taking into account the suspensions, it is unlikely to be more than 5. In theory, the "Barrier" should detect a similar target from a distance of 120-180 km - it depends on the specific configuration of the target, interference and the energy potential of the transmit / receive path. But don't forget that detection, confident capture, and tracking required to guide missiles are two different things. No matter how it happens that the hunter has turned into a game, there is a high probability that the F-16 will release the AIM-120 before the MiG-31 can notice it. Especially in the presence of external target designation from AWACS.
The hefty AWACS should be hit first. He probably has an EPR, like the B-52 - more than 100 sq. meters
- It's easy to say. AWACS does not walk in the first line - it loiters far behind, often does not intrude into the combat zone at all.
It seems to me that the MiG should have a tactical advantage in any case due to its high speed and altitude. Consider that the rudders of the American AIM-120C missile have been cut off for placement in the internal compartments of the F-22 - in a rarefied atmosphere at an altitude of 17-20 km, they will become ineffective. The MiG will be able to come off relatively easily
- This is on the one hand. On the other hand, the laws of aerodynamics are valid for everyone. The 31st also has a limitation on maneuvers in the stratosphere.
Can you remember what is the maximum permissible overload at high altitudes?
- It's impossible to forget. 3, 3G. With a flight altitude of 17 km and a speed of 2, 2M.
Clear. Do you know what the EPR value of the Raptor or the F-35 is? On the Internet, there were numbers from 0, 0001 to 0.3 square meters. meters. Which one is closer to the real one?
- Nobody knows for sure. Most likely, hundredths of a sq. meters from the front hemisphere.
Yes, outwardly, the Raptor should have a RCS lower than that of any of the fourth generation aircraft. The "flattened" shape of the fuselage, parallelism of edges and edges, V-shaped vertical tail, smooth canopy, internal suspension of weapons, gray smooth surfaces, without radomes for radio devices, slots, rivets and other radio contrast elements …
- That's why I say - in the case of the Raptor, the trick with the R-37 missile hitting at 300 km will not work - the Vulture simply cannot be found at such a distance.
And in general it will be possible?
- We have never practiced interception of such targets. The only thing I know is the confident capture and escort of a low-flying cruise missile, similar to the Tomahawk, with an EPR of 1 sq. meter is carried out at a distance of 20-30 km. But keep in mind that these data are valid only when targets are detected against the background of the earth's surface.
Is it better seen against the background of the earth?
- Vice versa. Zaslon sees objects much better at medium and high altitudes.
Clear. Those. do you mean that …
- That in real conditions any of the domestic and foreign fighter-interceptors of the 4/4 + generation has similar capabilities for conducting air combat at long and medium distances. At the same time, the same Su-27 has an advantage over the MiG-31 due to its lower visibility and high chances of winning in close combat.
In general, the concept of using the MiG-31 provides for participation in "dog dumps"? It also has a built-in 23mm cannon
- You mean close maneuverable combat? No, because it is believed that this is not his task. A very dubious decision.
Why?
- Because a group fight usually turns into close combat. Consider, you have found each other from a distance of 100-200 km, exchanged missiles, moreover, the probability of hitting the R-33 target in the range conditions is estimated at 0.7. The speed of convergence is 2-3 thousand km / h. If the opponents are not turned away, in a couple of minutes they will meet face to face. What awaits the 31st in this case, I think, is not required to be explained.
Not required. But is this option not taken into account by the creators of the MiG-31?
- You know, the 31st was created in the 1970s for completely different tasks. Extermination of armada of missile-carrying bombers in the skies over the Arctic, opposition to high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft SR-71 "Blackbird", destruction of reconnaissance balloons … Nowadays there are no such threats anymore - SR-71 was written off 20 years ago, balloons have become obsolete - just open Google Maps … By the way, the gun at the 31st was just intended for shooting balloons-probes, and not for shooting at enemy fighters. The only time practical shooting from it was practiced in Gromovo in 1988. Now the operation of the gun on the 31st is prohibited.
Tell me straight - is the MiG-31 outdated?
- Well, why so immediately. Just a highly specialized interceptor fighter. In a sense, the aircraft is outstanding - 20 years ago it had no analogues in the world at all in terms of the capabilities of its avionics …
“How about an F-14 Tomcat with deck registration?
- It is similar, but far from analogous. The American interceptor was noticeably inferior to the MiG in terms of its flight characteristics. With the advent of the MiG-31B modification and the R-37 missiles, the Yankees also lost their advantage in combat at long distances.
The last Tomcat was decommissioned in 2006
- Yes. The need for "Tomkats" has disappeared. As I say, both the MiG-31 and the Tomcat were created in completely different conditions: the exchange of missile strikes at long distances, the interception of supersonic targets in the stratosphere, racing at maximum speeds and altitudes. When creating them, no importance was attached to specialized AWACS aircraft. Rocket euphoria (hello F-4 "Phantom"!), Neglect of maneuverability - this is not a "front-line" fighter, but an interceptor: it was in service with the air defense forces, a kind of flying air defense system. Completely different tactics and concepts of air combat, valid for the times of the Cold War. But who needs it now, when the focus is on versatility, stealth, super-maneuverability, and AWACS functions have been transferred to specialized aircraft based on Boeing and Il-76. Try to export the 31st - no one will even take it for free. Not because the plane is bad in some way, but because India or Malaysia simply do not have such threats, which the MiG-31 is "imprisoned" for. In addition, it is quite voracious and expensive to operate.
Then what is the point of having a MiG-31 with the Russian Air Force? According to representatives of the Ministry of Defense, the upgraded MiG-31BM will operate right up to 2028
- The point is simple: there is nothing to replace them. The 31st make up a third of the Air Force's fleet of interceptor fighters, and if we write them off, we will be left with bare skies.
It turns out that it is too early to write them off … Perhaps the situation will be corrected by a large-scale modernization of the existing fleet?
- So it is - there is a gradual modernization of the fleet according to the MiG-31BM project. The aircraft will become more versatile, will be able to use precision weapons and attack ground targets.
How about using the MiG-31 as a "radar hunter"? Its high speed and altitude make it invulnerable to most outdated medium-range air defense systems. (note. This does not apply to the S-300 and "Patriot")
- Including.
MiG-31BM. Cockpit.
MiG-31BM. Navigator's cabin
"Glass" cabin?
- Yes, now the pilot has an indicator of the tactical situation - if before he felt like a cab for the navigator, now he will be aware of all the events. ILS replaced the old PPI. The Zaslon radar and on-board electronics have been modernized; now the MiG will be able to simultaneously track up to 10 targets and attack six of the highest priority targets.
Are there many of them in the ranks?
- Today, a couple of dozen, the general plan provides for the modernization of 60 machines.
So, we live
- Little by little. Well, come on: For the number of takeoffs to be equal to the number of landings!
