Your attention is invited to an article from the complete collected works of I. V. Stalin vol. 15. “Conversation with A. S. Yakovlev March 26, 1941 "
At the end of the conversation between the Leader and the aircraft designer, the question of Ukrainian nationalism will be raised.
Stalin's words are especially relevant now: “ However, the nationalists should not be underestimated. If you allow them to act with impunity, he will bring a lot of trouble. That is why they must be kept in an iron bridle, not allowed to undermine the unity of the Soviet Union .
I think that this material and assessments will be of interest to many.
Conversation with A. S. Yakovlev March 26, 1941
Stalin
What is your main conclusion, comrade Yakovlev, after getting acquainted with the aviation equipment of Western countries?
Yakovlev (aircraft designer, deputy commissar of the aviation industry was sent to Italy, France, England and Germany to get acquainted with the development of the air force - Ed.).
From the point of view of the general architecture of the aircraft and the bold solution of some of the most important tasks of aircraft construction, our country is not inferior to Western Europe. However, Comrade Stalin, we are lagging behind them in the culture of production, in perfecting our machines in detail.
Stalin
Tell us briefly about the state of the air forces of the countries you have visited.
Yakovlev
Let me start with Italy, Italy has never been an advanced aviation country, although the Mussolini government is making every effort to create the impression it wants. To this end, the Mussolini government, which combines the post of head of government with the post of Minister of Aviation, generously encourages all kinds of record and sport flights, allocates large funds to individual designers and pilots for organizing transatlantic flights, spares no money on the creation of "show" institutes and airfields. The Italian pilot Donati on the Caproni airplane has managed to set a world altitude record of about 14 thousand meters, and the pilot Ajello on the Macchi-72 racing airplane has a world speed record of 710 km per hour. However, most of the cars we saw in Montecelio, including the latest novelties, were not original in their scheme. It is one thing to build single record aircraft, and another thing to create a powerful air fleet. And even a cursory acquaintance with the aviation industry in Italy showed the discrepancy between the imaginary and reality.
In France, we visited the factories of the most famous French designers - Bleriot, Renault, Poteza and Messier. We saw nothing new, modern in the aircraft manufacturing technology. Every time, inspecting the aircraft factories in France, I involuntarily compared them with ours. And each time with deep satisfaction I came to the conclusion that in terms of scale, quality of equipment, none of the French enterprises I have seen can be compared with any of our ordinary aviation plants.
Stalin
Are you exaggerating?
Yakovlev
I am not exaggerating, Comrade Stalin, this is how it really is. By the mid-30s, France had drowned in a huge number of new aircraft models and was completely confused in the choice of those that could be put into serial, mass production and used during the war. As a result, it lags behind the potential enemy, Hitler's Germany.
In 1939, when the Second World War broke out, France found itself without aircraft, at least without such aircraft that could compete with the German Messerschmitts and Junkers, not to mention the fact that the number of German aircraft was many times superior to the French.
This was one of the reasons that France suffered such a shameful defeat. While studying the French air force, I got the impression that the French rulers were more prepared to surrender than to resist.
As far as England is concerned, the Spitfire fighter and the Lancaster bomber form the backbone of the British military. The heavy four-engined Lancaster has a bomb load of 6-7 tons at a top speed of 450 kilometers per hour. British Harikane fighters and Whitley bombers cannot compete with German aircraft in their flight and combat qualities. All British hopes for the excellent Spitfire fighter put into mass production. We also saw two new British monoplanes: a Hawker fighter called Harikane and the latest example of British aviation technology, the Supermarine fighter. Apparently, it is the improved "Harikeins" and "Spitfires" that play the main role in repelling air attacks on England from Nazi Germany.
Now about our possible enemy, fascist Germany.
The German aviation industry mainly produces three types of aircraft: Messerschmitt-109, Junkers-87 and Junkers-88. The Junkers-52 transport aircraft and the FV-189 reconnaissance aircraft are also produced. The heavy fighters Messerschmitt 110 and the obviously outdated bombers Heinkel 111 and Dornier 217 are being built in small numbers, and the Heinkel has a speed of about 430 kilometers per hour. "Dornier" is somewhat larger. The German aircraft fleet is dominated by "Messerschmitt-109", which the Germans proudly call "the king of the air."
As you know, in Spain, our I-15 and I-16 fighters first met in battles with the Messerschmitts. These were the first German Me-109B fighters, whose speed did not exceed 470 kilometers per hour. Our fighters were not inferior in speed to the Messerschmitts, and the weapons of both were roughly equivalent - 7.6 mm machine guns. The maneuverability of our machines was better, and the "Messers" got a lot from them. Because of this, we were in no hurry to modernize our domestic fighter aircraft.
The Germans, on the other hand, took into account the experience of the first air battles in the skies of Spain before us, they used the lessons of the Spanish training ground more quickly. They radically improved their Me-109 combat vehicles by installing the Daimler Benz-601 engine with a capacity of 1,100 horsepower, thanks to which the flight speed increased up to 570 kilometers per hour. They armed it with a 20 mm cannon, thereby increasing the firepower. In this form, the Messerschmitt fighter entered serial production under the Me-109E brand. Two dozen "Me-109E" in August 1938 were sent to Spain. The advantage of these aircraft over our I-15 and I-16 fighters was obvious.
Stalin
The history of the issue is known to me. So you think that the bulk of our fighters cannot withstand the German ones?
Yakovlev
They can only be resisted by our new fighters "Mig", "Yak" and "LaGG", which appeared in samples only in 1940, but are now put into mass production. Unfortunately, Comrade Stalin, the comparison of our bombers with the German Junkers-88 is also not in our favor. In terms of speed and bomb load, the Germans also have an advantage in bomber aviation. Our Pe-2 dive bomber, superior to German bombers, has only recently been put into series production. We do not have an aircraft for interaction with ground forces similar to the German Junkers-87 dive bomber. The Ilyushin armored attack aircraft Il-2, which is much superior in all respects to the Yu-87, has also only recently been put into mass production.
Stalin
It turns out that we did the right thing, that in 1939 we concluded a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany, which gave us a year and a half respite?
Yakovlev
It was a truly brilliant decision, Comrade Stalin. The gain in time was especially dear for our aviation: it made it possible to create new, completely modern types of combat aircraft in 1939-1940 and launch them into serial production by 1941. Without this, the Germans would surely have crushed us in 1939, and even together with the Japanese.
Stalin
Well, my grandmother said it in two, but, you are right, it would be very difficult. It turns out that they outwitted Hitler, did not help him "Nordic" cunning?
Yakovlev
It turns out, Comrade Stalin.
Stalin
Wait. Tell us about your general impressions of your last visit to Germany. You are an observant person and you must have noticed a lot of interesting things.
Yakovlev
It depends on what interests you, Comrade Stalin.
Stalin
What is the general situation in Berlin? Feels like Germany is at war with England?
Yakovlev
There are no signs of war in the city. Allied aviation is more frightening than acting. During her raids, the situation in Berlin is more like a training air raid alert. However, when an air raid is announced, Germans disciplinedly hide in bomb shelters and sit in them until lights out. During the day, there are queues near the shops, and life in the city goes on as usual. Most men wear some kind of uniform: military, SS, police, Nazi party uniform: black trousers and a brown jacket with a sleeve swastika, even street cleaners wear uniform caps. Everywhere there are posters of Churchill with the words "Enemy Number One" and slogans: "God punish England!" A favorite topic in conversations on international and political topics is ridicule of the British. For some reason, the Nazis are extremely derisive about their allies, the Italians. One of the German aircraft designers at lunch told me the following joke: "The Italians' tanks differ from the German ones in that they have three speeds back and one forward." German cinemas show a very popular documentary among Germans about the war with Poland: “Poland on fire” - the barbaric bombing of this country by German aircraft.
Stalin
I saw this picture. This could only take place against a country with extremely weak air defense.
Yakovlev
Jews in Berlin are required to wear a yellow armband with a black “J” (“Jude”) on their left hand. In taxis you can often see signs: “I don’t serve Jews”, and in cinemas at the box office: “Tickets are not sold to Jews.” On the boulevards, benches for Jews with the inscription “Für Juden” (for Jews) are painted yellow and with their backs turned to the boulevard And so on throughout Germany. Jewish pogroms take place.
Stalin
I was told that the Nazis were preparing the complete physical extermination of the Jewish population both in Germany itself and in the countries it occupied. To this end, they developed a special plan for the extermination of the Jewish population, coded under the name "Wannsee Plan". It is a pity for the hardworking and talented Jewish people with a history of six thousand years. Many of its representatives, being prominent scientists in a wide variety of fields, made a significant contribution to the preparation of the Soviet Union for defense.
Today, the real hope of salvation for the Jewish people is the Soviet Union. The only country in the world where citizens of Jewish nationality truly feel, like all other peoples inhabiting our great country, as equal and free people.
The British and Americans, pretending to be friends of the Jews and at the same time creating and raising the Nazis, talk a lot about the need to save them, but practically do nothing for this, they allow Hitler to implement his cannibalistic plans.
Yakovlev
Why do the Nazis hate Jews so much?
Stalin
It's about capitalist competition. The Ruhr magnates seize the capital of the Jewish capitalists in Germany. And to disguise, under the flag of racial theory, they set their watchdogs on all Jews in the face of the Nazis. What, in your opinion, is the distinguishing feature of modern Germans?
Yakovlev
Overconfidence.
Stalin
Well, that was always enough for them and ruined them.
Yakovlev
But now, Comrade Stalin, as a result of fascist propaganda, all of them, without exception, from the designer to the porter, feel a sense of superiority over all and other peoples.
Stalin
Untenmenschen are nonhumans, so it seems that modern Germans call all other peoples?
Yakovlev
Exactly so, Comrade Stalin.
Stalin
No, we are doing the right thing to punish nationalists of all stripes and colors so severely.… They are the best helpers of our enemies and the worst enemies of their own peoples. After all, the cherished dream of nationalists is to split the Soviet Union into separate "national" states, and then it will become an easy prey for enemies … The peoples inhabiting the Soviet Union, for the most part, will be physically exterminated, the rest, part will turn into dumb and pitiful slaves of the conquerors incite among Ukrainians, who are the same Russians, hatred of Russians and seek the separation of Ukraine from the Soviet Union. All the same old song of ancient times from the period of the Roman Empire: divide and conquer. The British were especially successful in inciting national hatred and inciting some peoples against others. … Thanks to such tactics, bribing miserable and corrupt leaders of different nations, capitalist island England - the first factory in the world, negligible in size, managed to seize vast territories, enslave and rob many peoples of the world, create a "Great" British Empire, in which, as boastfully the British declare, the sun never sets. With us, this number, while we are alive, will not pass. So it is in vain that Hitler's fools call the Soviet Union a "house of cards" which supposedly will fall apart at the first serious test, count on the fragility of the friendship of the peoples inhabiting our country today, and hope to embroil them with each other. In the event of an attack by Germany on the Soviet Union, people of different nationalities inhabiting our country will defend it, not sparing their lives, as their beloved Motherland. However, the nationalists should not be underestimated. If you allow them to act with impunity, they will bring a lot of troubles.… That is why they must be kept in an iron leash, not allowed to undermine the unity of the Soviet Union.
Tell me, comrade Yakovlev, how do the German pilots feel about the Soviet air force?
Yakovlev
They are clearly dismissive, Comrade Stalin. They consider our aviation inferior, "Asian", unable to withstand their "invincible" Luftwaffe.
Stalin
“Invincible” … This will ultimately destroy them. Underestimating the enemy is an extremely dangerous thing.
Yakovlev
Comrade Stalin, let me ask you a question - why did the Germans reveal their military secrets to me - showed their latest military aviation technology?
Stalin
They probably want to intimidate. Breaking our will to resist is not new.
This is what Genghis Khan did, whose scouts, before the invasion, spread information about the power of his army among the peoples, into whose territory the Tatar-Mongol cavalry was supposed to invade. And I must say that this technique of Genghis Khan in many cases worked flawlessly, paralyzing the will to resist in the victims of aggression. But the Hitlerites are in vain hoping for this reception. We are not shy. You have to be very vigilant. Now is the time … So we assigned security to the armed man Degtyarev, he carried all his secrets with him and worked at home. We banned them … But you can't put security on everyone, and that's not your business - the plane is not a pistol.
Yakovlev
You can rest assured that the state secret is kept securely in the design bureaus.
Stalin
And you still talk with the designers on this topic. I know: there are still reckless people among you. Extra conversation won't hurt.
Yakovlev
Listen, Comrade Stalin, I will gather the designers and talk to them on your behalf …
Stalin
Why on my behalf? Tell me yourself. Many people like to hide behind my back, they refer to me for every little thing, they don't want to take responsibility. You are a young man, not yet spoiled, and you know the business. Do not be afraid to act on your own behalf, and your authority will be greater, and people will respect … Comrade Yakovlev, do everything possible so that new types of aircraft enter our armed forces as soon as possible. For these questions, please contact me at any time of the day or night.
